Indian Wells : Matchday 10

invisibleman18

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #100 on: March 25, 2008, 11:19:13 PM »

Fair point, but I don't really think it's a comparable situation.
If it was a draw at full time you would have extra time and penalties which guarantees a winner. This is the key point. If the previous week is not the way to go then fair enough, you need something else that guarantees a winner. The closer final thing doesn't do this and that's what I've been trying to say.Iit's a not a good tiebreaker for this reason. I've used the previous week as my suggestion because I don't have another idea to suggest. The main point though is that it gurantees a winner is performs better as a tiebreaker than the closer final method. Perhaps someone else has some other fairer idea that gurantees a winner.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #101 on: March 25, 2008, 11:25:40 PM »

My best suggestion would be: 1) the guy with most results right (i.e. the least completely correct predictions)
if thats equal, then:
2) the guy who earned most points from a single day, and if thats the same, the guy who's second best day was higher. (This is similar to the way the ATP seperate players who are level on points, GS & MS points, and tourneys played.)

i think this would basically guarantee an answer, unless the two players have predicted the same predictions each day!


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invisibleman18

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #102 on: March 25, 2008, 11:35:09 PM »

Hmmm yeah those should guarantee an answer. I like the idea of the most points in a single day.
I still don't like the least completely correct one though. IMO predicting a winner is easier, and more common than predicting the winner and correct number of sets too. So I think the exact result should be valued more highly given it's harder and less common.

But they still both work well as tiebreakers.


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #103 on: March 25, 2008, 11:37:39 PM »

Alex, you are starting off with greast posts then totally going in the other direction! lmao

Right, here's my FULL PROPOSAL.

If after all matches are complete, two or more players are tied, the following shall occur.

- At the start of the week, post a finals prediction, with the player expected to win and in how many sets.
- The winner of the tie, will be the one who either gets the correct final prediction or comes closest to this.
- In the event that none of the tied players achieves a correct final prediction whoever got closer will get the higher points.
- Closer is defined as whoever had one player get further in the tournament.
- If this is tied, then whoever got their second player further in the tournament
- If this is still tied, straws shall be drawn for who gets the higher points. ( to make it a closer competition you COULD change this to whoever is behind in the overall leaderboard gets the points.... but this situation I believe is unlikely)


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #104 on: March 25, 2008, 11:39:45 PM »

But on the other hand, if you got more exact predictions, it means you got less winners right, so you did worse on an easier sort of prediction! Do you understand what I mean? I haven't worded it very well.
My main reason why i prefer what i said is because i feel getting the amount of sets right is more guesswork then getting the winner right, so i value getting more winners right, rather then getting the sets right...


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #105 on: March 25, 2008, 11:44:50 PM »

Neil, why do you value getting one player closer rather then getting overall two players closer? I think its a better prediction if you get two quarter-finalists rather then one semi and one first round loser.


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #106 on: March 26, 2008, 12:05:22 AM »

Quote from: Yamor on March 25, 2008, 11:44:50 PM

You are just wrong.

lol

Basically, you got closer because one guy got closer to getting into the final.

You keep arguing semi. But say I get final and first round loser. And you get two semi's. Are you really going to argue you are closer? I FEEL the natural assumption is that the final player is closer. That is my reasoning and I think most would agree. It doesn't have to be too complicated. And doing it the other way means more ties and more working out. SO doing it my way is MUCH easier.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #107 on: March 26, 2008, 12:16:44 AM »

You're basically admitting at the end there that your reason is just to make it simpler! Anyway, in a case where you get one finalist right, i agree, because one part of your prediction actually happened, but in the case i gave before, i don't agree...


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #108 on: March 26, 2008, 12:29:10 AM »

Quote from: Yamor on March 26, 2008, 12:16:44 AM

HA! There's my point! Mathmatically, arguing that semi + R1 is the same or worse than QF x 2. Fine,

But you can;t then say, well if it;s FINAL and R1 and QF x2 that that's suddenly better because it was half right.

SURELY it follows that one Semi is better than 2 QF's IF you agree that ONE FINAL is better than 2 SEMI'S

FACT.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #109 on: March 26, 2008, 12:40:06 AM »

You're right that mathematically the cases are the same, but my point was that if you got one finalist right, part of your prediction actually happened, which is far better then any mathematical analysis. However, if no part of your prediction happens, then I'd say it should go by who was closer over the two finalists predicted...


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #110 on: March 26, 2008, 12:42:17 AM »

Quote from: Yamor on March 26, 2008, 12:40:06 AM

nooooo this is my point.

Look at it outside of the words "Final Prediction" and look at it in terms of who got closer to that final. A drawsheet.... who got closer to the middle. It;s like both people have two chances.

I.e. There's 4 people in a race. 2 on one team 2 on another. One guy drops out after a mile. The two on the other team drop out at 15 miles, and the other reamining guy on the first guys team drops out after 20, but he got the furthest.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #111 on: March 26, 2008, 12:46:15 AM »

Looking at it like that, i'd agree that even a correct finalist and first round loser is worse then 2 semi-finalists. However, the prediction people make is who will fight out the final, not who will go furthest.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #112 on: March 26, 2008, 12:47:35 AM »

Sorry, i meant a semi and a first round is better then two quarters...


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #113 on: March 26, 2008, 12:49:03 AM »

With your understanding, you can make it people name 1 or 3 players at the start. Why 2 players, and a winner and how many sets?


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #114 on: March 26, 2008, 12:54:58 AM »

Because if people get the prediction right, that seperates those on winners, and then on sets.

Yeah, you could pick the winner, or 3 people or whatever, but that just complicates it. That's saying that you should pick the winer of every match at the start of the week (in theory). This is crazy, so there's no point in changing it to make it more complicated. It ruins the tie break idea, because we pick the winner of the matches anyway.

Look, it;s a perfectly FAIR way to do things what I said. You are just looking for flaws that aren't there and haven't already been admitted to in my opinion.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #115 on: March 26, 2008, 12:59:14 AM »

Whatever


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #116 on: March 26, 2008, 01:01:54 AM »

Quote from: Yamor on March 26, 2008, 12:59:14 AM

Whatever

Anyone else i would get annoyed at but that was just funny.


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #117 on: March 26, 2008, 01:02:17 AM »

Wow, we've got like a hundred posts just about this...


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Yamor

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #118 on: March 26, 2008, 01:03:22 AM »

What's there to get annoyed about!?!


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nkp2

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Re: Indian Wells : Matchday 10 « Reply #119 on: March 26, 2008, 01:04:40 AM »

I was starting to get stressed lol


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