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Murray massively disappoints at Open
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Topic: Murray massively disappoints at Open (Read 1464 times)
nkp2
Grand Slam Champion
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2008, 10:49:29 PM »
Quote from: Glasgowboy on January 16, 2008, 07:08:02 PM
After reading posts a few days ago I was seeing comments about who he could meet in semis and final
In my opinion that was well off and why I think that is this:
1. his best showing in a slam so far has been last 16
2. his serve at the moment leaves him too much graft to do on his own service games
3. relating to point 2 ...how can he keep that graft up over 7 best of five set matches
I agree with Peter Fleming that his style at the moment wont win a slam...you would need super human fitness
if you are not getting enough cheap points on serve.
If you rely on your counter punching the result is that you will run a much larger distance in a match that your opponent will
it can be done in tournies like Doha...but not slams I would reckon
The comments about semi and final opponents were made in looking at the draw, which was very reasonable. He's number 9 in the world for crying out loud. Super human fitness? He is a professional tennis player, with a large team around him, he should be super fit. Also, how will you run further than your opponent..... surely both players run for the same amount in a rally, as long as one player isn't just hitting it back to the other.... which he's not really doing, he's just not attacking the ball heavily, but he still makes the opponent move. It's not squash he's playing, it's tennis. If you are running more than your opponent, then your on the back foot, not ready to counter a weak shot....
So basically I disagree entirely. The only reasons he won't win a slam right now, are lack of serious consistency, and Federer. That's it.
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Mark
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2008, 11:27:59 PM »
Yeah... the only reason Murray would be running more is if he wasn't controlling the points.
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Glasgowboy
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2008, 11:40:27 PM »
Don't wanna be too harsh on him but I reckon without the cheap points on serve he is having to do a lot more work than he has to
I would love him to win a slam ...I just dont see him being close until he gets consistant with the serve
That was the main point I was trying to make
[ Last edit by Glasgowboy January 16, 2008, 11:41:30 PM ]
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Mark
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2008, 11:43:10 PM »
I of course do agree with that point.
[ Last edit by Mark January 16, 2008, 11:43:16 PM ]
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Glasgowboy
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2008, 12:14:19 AM »
Quote from: Mark on January 16, 2008, 11:27:59 PM
Yeah... the only reason Murray would be running more is if he wasn't controlling the points.
This is very true....I thought in the Tsonga game though that the inside out forehand he played was creating loads of angled shots which was giving Andy a lot of running
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Glasgowboy
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2008, 01:36:14 AM »
Quote from: nkp2 on January 16, 2008, 10:49:29 PM
The comments about semi and final opponents were made in looking at the draw, which was very reasonable. He's number 9 in the world for crying out loud. Super human fitness? He is a professional tennis player, with a large team around him, he should be super fit. Also, how will you run further than your opponent..... surely both players run for the same amount in a rally, as long as one player isn't just hitting it back to the other.... which he's not really doing, he's just not attacking the ball heavily, but he still makes the opponent move. It's not squash he's playing, it's tennis. If you are running more than your opponent, then your on the back foot, not ready to counter a weak shot....
So basically I disagree entirely. The only reasons he won't win a slam right now, are lack of serious consistency, and Federer. That's it.
Yes it is true that his opponents will have more running too if he aint get the cheap points but are you not overlooking my point that if he beats that player they are out
and he needs to do it all over again (7 times)
What condition will he be in late in a slam compared with top players that are getting cheap points in their matches.
I think thats what Peter Fleming was getting at and I honestly believe that if he is capable of beating the top players ...which we know he is..it aint gonna win him a slam
unless he gets a larger amount of short points by getting a far more consistant serve
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Mark
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2008, 08:37:55 AM »
Good point, I failed to see that side of it. Murray will indeed not win a Slam if he plays every match like a marathon. A perfect example of this was Nadal vs Murray last year and how in the next round Nadal went out.
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Edith
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2008, 05:19:13 PM »
It's a different ball game in the top 10, you are their to be shot at, as every player below you wants your scalp,now Andy is physically fit, I think he needs to toughen up mentally, more vital games are won in the mind.
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ljsmall
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2008, 10:47:20 AM »
Quote from: Glasgowboy on January 17, 2008, 01:36:14 AM
Yes it is true that his opponents will have more running too if he aint get the cheap points but are you not overlooking my point that if he beats that player they are out
and he needs to do it all over again (7 times)
What condition will he be in late in a slam compared with top players that are getting cheap points in their matches.
I think thats what Peter Fleming was getting at and I honestly believe that if he is capable of beating the top players ...which we know he is..it aint gonna win him a slam
unless he gets a larger amount of short points by getting a far more consistant serve
I agree with you completely. I knew that's what you were getting at and was just about to say so. But you've then to look at the odd occasion it does happen. Ok, I know it's not the same cause he has a big serve and would have won cheap points. But in terms of slogging it out take Goran the year he won Wimbledon. He played 3 4 setters and 2 5 setters to win. All of which were peppered with 7-5's and tie breaks. He never won a set easy and won the final on 9-7. He only played 2 sets that were won on less than 9 games and that was Henman 6-0 and Rafter in the final at 6-2. Yet Rafter, and even Henman, had had a far easier time on the way to the final. Loads of 6-1, 6-2 sets and a few 3 setters. Yet Goran still took it. Ok, Rafter had a long match against Agassi but he'd still had an easier time. Doesn't
always
work that way.
However it is rare and I think even Andy knows he needs to start getting more cheap points on serve and easier wins in the early stages. Although how much easier you can get than his almost triple bagal at last years AO I'm not sure...
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measdale
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2008, 11:47:54 AM »
I'm not convinced Andy will ever be the physical monster-truck that Goran was!!
Sadly, I'm not convinced Andy will ever match that blinkered, driven vision that Goran had.
And Andy's certainly nowhere near Goran's consistency (though the big man did throw the occasional wobbly).
So, unless he lucks out (which he does from time to time - just needs to maintain it for two weeks), he's not going to win a slam without improving that serve consistency.
Not necessarily "cheap" points, but certainly points from his serve should be at least a little bit easier than points when he's receiving !!
Oh, and hi Edith (whoever you are).
[ Last edit by measdale January 18, 2008, 04:38:09 PM ]
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Glasgowboy
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Re: Murray massively disappoints at Open
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2008, 06:41:59 PM »
Quote from: ljsmall on January 18, 2008, 10:47:20 AM
I agree with you completely. I knew that's what you were getting at and was just about to say so. But you've then to look at the odd occasion it does happen. Ok, I know it's not the same cause he has a big serve and would have won cheap points. But in terms of slogging it out take Goran the year he won Wimbledon. He played 3 4 setters and 2 5 setters to win. All of which were peppered with 7-5's and tie breaks. He never won a set easy and won the final on 9-7. He only played 2 sets that were won on less than 9 games and that was Henman 6-0 and Rafter in the final at 6-2. Yet Rafter, and even Henman, had had a far easier time on the way to the final. Loads of 6-1, 6-2 sets and a few 3 setters. Yet Goran still took it. Ok, Rafter had a long match against Agassi but he'd still had an easier time. Doesn't
always
work that way.
However it is rare and I think even Andy knows he needs to start getting more cheap points on serve and easier wins in the early stages. Although how much easier you can get than his almost triple bagal at last years AO I'm not sure...
Yes Goran did get many more cheap points and thats what Andy needs
I do also agree with what you say about consistency..I think if he got the serve consistent
the rest may fall into place...Measdales post above is bang on the money.
Also I aint so sure its not a mental problem with his serve because he can serve excellent at times.
I wonder if the team he has in place can sort this...woudn't say Miles Mclagan was an expert on mental problems during his own career.
[ Last edit by Glasgowboy January 18, 2008, 06:45:32 PM ]
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