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KitKat
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Round Robin « on: February 28, 2007, 02:36:22 PM »

I need this explained to me, I've been trying to work out the Las Vegas one but it's just confusing me, I get what a round robin is but heres an example of where I can't work out who is going into the next round, you've got Del Potro, Blake and Korolev playing in one group, Del Potro and Korolev have won a match each and the last match to be decided is between Blake and Del Potro, if Blake wins, that means they have won a match each so who goes into the next round?  confused
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Spud
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 02:45:50 PM »

I didn't know either, but someone on MTF said that if Del Potro wins 6 or more games against Blake or Blake retires, then Del Potro goes through. If Del Potro wins less than 6 games, Blake goes through. There's no way Korolev can make it through to the quarters.
[ Last edit by Spud February 28, 2007, 02:46:10 PM ] Logged
KitKat
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 03:08:38 PM »

But Korolev beat Blake so surely he's got a better chance of going through than Blake?
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Spud
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 03:18:18 PM »

Not according to the bloke from MTF. Blake has to spank Del Potro to go through, which is highly unlikely considering how poorly he played against Korolev. Because Del Potro conceded only 5 games to Korolev when he beat him, and Korolev conceded 6 against Blake there is no way Korolev can advance.....supposedly  Rolling Eyes

It's all to complicated with all the ifs and buts to me and shows once again what a farce the RR system is.
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ljsmall
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 03:19:59 PM »

It explains it all clearly (ha!) on ATP website. I read it at Christmas but it just baffled me!
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KitKat
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 04:32:17 PM »

Thanks I'll have a look at the ATP website and see if it helps, it sounds like it works a bit like goal differences in football, not that I know anything about that either.  Get rid of round robins that's all I can say.
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simo4cufc
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 12:20:25 AM »

One of the best things about tennis is its a two-men-enter-one-man-leaves form of gladiatorial combat, round robin my bum.
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American Twist
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #7 on: March 01, 2007, 02:36:57 AM »

The worst part about the RR format are the non-competitive tiebreakers.  It just seems wrong to eliminate a player based on scoring differentials.  There are so many factors that determine score.  Sometimes matches are close because a player is hurt, or because the competitors just match up closely, or maybe an inferior player raises his level of play for the match.  The bottom line is, the fair way to decide advancement is by winning. 
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KitKat
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #8 on: March 01, 2007, 10:21:02 AM »

I agree, get rid of round robin.
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gjr
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #9 on: March 02, 2007, 02:03:09 PM »

Looks like there as been an incident allowing Blake to go though at Vagas.

Some players have said it is a  disgrace

More to follow I think. Death to RR with luck I hope
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ljsmall
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #10 on: March 02, 2007, 03:22:16 PM »

Hope so. It's crap. And it's badly done. There's not the time to do it properly in a week!
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AL1874
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #11 on: March 02, 2007, 03:23:55 PM »

The round robin format is a mess and the majority of the public will be left confused. I know I am, having not research the RR format in any great detail.

If you look at the results from the Las Vegas linked bellow:

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?fil...ttp://www.atptennis.com/1/posting/2007/433/mds.pdf

How many people are going to read the full list of rules to understand why Blake is still in the event? (I'm going to do it now because I have nothing to do for an hour).

Del Porto has withdrawn due to a chest complaint, but Korolev is clearly shown in second place in group 1 above Blake .
[ Last edit by AL1874 March 02, 2007, 07:26:24 PM ] Logged
American Twist
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #12 on: March 02, 2007, 03:38:11 PM »

"A similar situation occurred in Buenos Aires, which has given us great cause for concern," de Villiers said. "It is clear that fans like round robin and the research confirms it. But unless we can find a way to ensure that withdrawals don't unfairly affect the outcome of group, I'm afraid round robin will fail."

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AqVrKGmwkx9K...qw4v7YF?slug=ap-lasvegas&prov=ap&type=lgns

It's not clear to me that fans like round robin. I have yet to hear one fan say they like it. 
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davidB
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 03:51:39 PM »

I hate round-robin... Whichever fans they're talking to, SUCK...
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AL1874
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Re: Round Robin « Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 04:16:08 PM »

Sorry if this is a bit long but here are the RR rules from the ATP site and I have highlight what I believe to be the relevant sections.

The Competition - Round Robin
a) Each player will play every other player in his group.
b) All matches will be best of three (3) tie-break sets.
c) The 8 group winners advance to the finals competition.
d) The final standing of each group shall be determined by the first of the following
methods that apply:
i) Greatest number of wins;
ii) Greatest number of matches completed (a retirement does not count as a completed
match for the retiring player; it does however, count as a completed
match for the opponent of the retiring player).
iii) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are
tied, then:
aa) If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than
two (2) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to
the knockout competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2)
players tied with 1-1 records
; or
bb) Highest percentage of sets won; or
cc) Highest percentage of games won.
dd) If any of the above produces one (1) superior player, then this is the winner
of the group
; or, if it produces one (1) inferior player, and the two remaining
players are tied, the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken
by head-to-head record.
iv) If ties still exist after the above procedures, then the player with the highest
ranking shall be deemed the winner of the group.
v) In applying the tie-breaking procedures, a conduct default or retirement shall
count as a straight set win or loss. However, games won or lost in matches with
the defaulting or retiring player shall not be counted in calculating percentage
of games won. A player who retires during the Round Robin because of illness or
injury may continue in the competition if cleared to play by the Tournament Doctor.
vi) Any player who is defaulted pursuant to the ATP Code during the Round Robin
competition shall be defaulted from all other matches in the event and the ATP
default provisions shall apply, except for the following circumstances:
aa) The loss of physical condition; or
bb) Dress and equipment.
vii) Any player who withdraws from any Round Robin match after the first round
shall not be eligible for the finals competition.
viii) Any player who withdraws, or is withdrawn, after only one (1) Round Robin
match may be replaced by an alternate player and that player may be eligible for
the finals competition.
ix) Alternates for the Round Robin competition shall be the Lucky-Losers from the
qualifying event. These players may be substituted, as necessary, at any time
during the Round Robin competition.


At point aa) highlighted in Blue it suggests that Blake should be out or I’m I missing something.

Del Porto having retired did not complete two matches and would have been eliminated.

The match up between the two remaining players (Blake and Korolev) should settle it, and therefore since Korolev beat Blake he should progress without percentages being introduced to cloud the issue.

At point dd) highlighted in red it says if any of the above procedures produces a winner the he will win the group.

I have yet to see in writing the rules regarding projecting of scores in unfinished matches.

This appears to be a fudge to protect the number one seed ranting

And as for the James Blake quotes of not understanding the rules here it is in the dumbed down version,

If the group of three is reduced to a group of two it reverts to a straight knock out between the two remaining players.


[ Last edit by AL1874 March 02, 2007, 05:11:23 PM ] Logged
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