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Judy Murray

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^ Yes a petition sounds a good idea - we can start with the members of MW.  But yes I'd be surprised if there isn't some reaction to the announcement.  Yes red kites are birds of prey and as far as I know they continue to hunt for small animals etc.  I think the ones we have here are fed, by humans, in order to encourage them to stay.  They certainly are very striking and you can't miss them when they're around.
The only golf course I remember, in Scotland, from many years ago is Troon which was lovely although, sadly, I can't remember having afternoon tea there, although I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case.   & of course we can't forget Donald's splashy, over the top, but well-worth visiting golf courses.
I just hope someone with sense will put up a good attack on the Murray academy - nothing against the tennis stars, but we do need sense to prevail.
[ Last edit by moonglow September 05, 2017, 07:31 AM ] IP Logged
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^ I remember seeing a documentary on TV some years ago about kites at a conservation area in England and how they got regularly fed to stop them from having the need to hunt down and eat other living creatures.

Troon isn't far from Turnberry which also has a golf course and it was the hotel there I used to sometimes visit with my parents when I was younger, and that's the golf course and hotel which Trump now owns, calling it Trump Turnberry.  Fair enough he simply took over what was already there and added his own embellishments to it, but it was his golf course near Aberdeen, known as Trump International Golf Links, which he built from scratch which caused a huge outcry from local conservationists, although he promised to preserve the natural environment as much as possible, which, as far as I know, he seems to have succeeded in doing.  He also turned an old mansion house near it into a luxury hotel while retaining it's outward appearance, in the same way that Andy has done with Cromlix House.

I'll be keeping an eye on events regarding Judy's proposed project as much as possible, although it could be months before anything further is known.

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The red kites issue is a bit of a red herring (sorry)! - there are red kites nearby but the proposal would not affect them that much. For those who don't know the area,  the proposed golf course would almost touch the existing 18 hole Dunblane golf course. Also about 1 mile to the south (as the red kite flies) is the old lovely 9 hole golf course in Bridge of Allan. This course was designed by Old Tom Morris who designed the original St Andrews Golf Course. The patrons of this course raised objections to the development as they already struggle to survive due to declining membership and another course next to them could be curtains for them (I do not play golf and have no vested interest here).

Like others, I feel really bad about the whole thing - maybe if Judy was clear on what the strategy is to ensure (and not just offer vague hopes) that young people from all sections of society will actually be able to access (including affording the facility) it might make it more palatable.
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^ Thank you for that.  I've visited Dunblane quite often in the past, as well as Gleneagles, long before Andy came along, but don't claim to know much about the area.  Like you I have no interest in golf despite having been born in St Andrews and spent my younger days living a little further round the coast in an area which was home to three full-sized golf courses plus a 9 hole ladies' one, all of which are hopefully still in existence.

I do agree though that a bit more clarity on Judy's part wouldn't go amiss, because at the moment it all sounds a bit too highfalutin to be acceptable, and certainly not what the academy was originally supposed to be for.

I'm wondering if perhaps its lack of easy access might finally scupper it, particularly as it sounds like a new access would have to be built coming off the motorway, something which could be deemed to present a traffic hazard.
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The red kites issue is a bit of a red herring (sorry)! - there are red kites nearby but the proposal would not affect them that much. For those who don't know the area,  the proposed golf course would almost touch the existing 18 hole Dunblane golf course. Also about 1 mile to the south (as the red kite flies) is the old lovely 9 hole golf course in Bridge of Allan. This course was designed by Old Tom Morris who designed the original St Andrews Golf Course. The patrons of this course raised objections to the development as they already struggle to survive due to declining membership and another course next to them could be curtains for them (I do not play golf and have no vested interest here).

Like others, I feel really bad about the whole thing - maybe if Judy was clear on what the strategy is to ensure (and not just offer vague hopes) that young people from all sections of society will actually be able to access (including affording the facility) it might make it more palatable.


I so much love your expression "as the red kite flies" - it's so appropriate for this thread!  I don't follow golf at all, I sometimes hear about the top championship results, and I'm interested in Donald's golf courses in Scotland.  But re: Judy's proposals I didn't know there were other golf courses so near and particularly those which are already under threat and those ones sound as if they'd be completely wiped out should her academy become reality.
We have one or two tennis clubs here in Yorkshire, but they'd don't seem to feel the need to include a golf course, a hotel and non-affordable housing.  Most local players don't need to stay overnight and they don't need to buy a house very near to it.
Judy's plans seem totally non-affordable - one hour on the courts there will cost £££ ? for maybe 2 hours?  I don't know.
Aileen Trump Turnberry sounds nice, I'll check it out (on an internet search, not in real life)!
If Judy Murray reads her son's website, I do think spending half an hour on this thread just might (?) make her wonder - If Andy reads this thread he might wonder too - he might decide the red kites are a bit of a distraction, but you never know what he might think?
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About ten days ago I had the pleasure of seeing Judy Murray interviewed at the Cheltenham Literature Festival.  I have to say, she does come across as very genuine and upfront.  She's clearly committed and driven to improve the lot of tennis in Scotland and, I must admit, I didn't realise how much she has done on that score over the last 20-30 years.

Has anybody read her recent autobiography?  I've got it, but I'm polishing off a Mary Beard first - then there may be time for me to fit it in before my annual end of November read of Silas Marner.

You can see from her talking about the On The Road project, and how they seek to improve grassroots tennis and extend access to excellent facilities for younger people who show promise (not just regular tennis club, but the sort of thing Andy had to go to Spain for) what her idea is.  Not that I've followed much about the plans (or red kites!).

I do feel that as someone who I don't know a lot about - other than the obvious good job she did with her sons - she came across very well, and the talk even helped me understand why she's often painted as... severe. 

It was interesting.  She came out of it well, and, I must add, I'm normally very tuned in to a 'PR' job and I didn't feel this was it.  You could really see where Andy and Jamie come from!
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@ATS - Thank you very much for sharing that experience.  I freely admit I've never been all that struck on Judy, and nor have I read her autobiography, but I realise that seeing and listening to somebody in the flesh gives a quite different perspective.

Why do you read Silas Marner on an annual basis?   Just curious because I was forced to read it at school when I was about 13, and nobody in the class liked it, but I suspect that, as with so many things that my generation at least had to read as part of English Lit lessons, we were really too young to either appreciate or totally understand them.
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Thanks ATS I liked reading your story about Judy,  It must have been very nice for you to go to the Cheltenham Literary Festival Smile   I haven't read Judy's autobiography but I have a very nice book called "Wimbledon" so I look at that quite often - it tells me about all the Champions from when Wimbledon started so it's very nice to read.
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@Aileen I'd be interested to see whether, if you read her book, it changes your mind.  Or at the very least perhaps it will give you a new perspective on her.  I have to say I'm not that closely attuned to planning issues etc, but what came across was someone who had a strong vision which I could relate to and respect (as it was described) and not someone who was seeking to cravenly make a few bob - which is something I would respect less!

I read Silas Marner because I love it, and it is a bit of a habit - in some ways it feels like the start of Christmas to me.  I agree it's not the easiest read, but I've come to love George Eliot. I almost certainly would not have liked it had I been made to read it at school.  Perhaps the morals and the ending are what I relate to in a book!!

It's a bit like Shakespeare and Poetry - didn't take to either at school.  Yes, I could see why they were excellent, and well written, but they didn't speak to me.  This year the RSC has transformed both for me - and as I now say: Shakespeare was written to be watched.  I know some will lovely the lyricism, but for me it's drama.
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@Moonglow - thanks, if it's a big green book I have got it but not read it yet.  It's very heavy!
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@ATS - I'm quite prepared to believe that Judy isn't in this for the money because she has done so much for tennis, and I know Jamie approves of this particular plan and no doubt Andy does too, so if her sons like it then it must be OK.  That said, I still maintain she could have found a less controversial place, something which would have the added advantage of seeing the planning permission going through more quickly.

I think I'd have to read Silas Marner again before reaching any conclusion about it, but I agree that forcing books on school pupils is not a good idea because to me that in itself is an automatic put-off.  I did re-read a couple of others after I left school and actually enjoyed them!

I rather liked Shakespeare, and poetry, at school, but I do see what you mean about Shakespeare being better acted than just read, although it did help that pupils used to take turns at reading the parts out loud, and we used to have a Shakespeare Reading once a year where each class in the senior school chose an act out of the play they were currently studying and then performed it (reading from the book thankfully) in front of the rest of the school.  In my final year I had a wonderful time playing one of the grave-diggers in Hamlet courtesy of bones from the biology lab, only unfortunately when I held up poor Yorick's skull to give to Hamlet, the elastic band which held the jawbone in place snapped and it fell off, much to everyone's mirth.  Looking at that act now though, I remember that the version of Hamlet we had was quite heavily abridged (censored if you like) so as to be suitable for us 'innocent' teenagers. lol
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@Moonglow - thanks, if it's a big green book I have got it but not read it yet.  It's very heavy!
@Moonglow - thanks, if it's a big green book I have got it but not read it yet.  It's very heavy!

Yes it's a green hard backed book, but it has a sort of yellow "dust" cover which has a picture of the courts at Wimbledon..  It's actually called "Wimbledon Centre Court of the Game" by Max Robertson.  As my book is very old I don't think yours is the same  but yours might be an updated version I sort of wonder?
You know I think we appreciate Shakespeare and poetry more when we leave school - when we're at school we have to read these things but I think we have more understanding of literature when we're older - not that I'm all that good at understanding it now - but I try! Smile
Oh sorry I didn't mean to quote your post twice!
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You know I think we appreciate Shakespeare and poetry more when we leave school - when we're at school we have to read these things but I think we have more understanding of literature when we're older - not that I'm all that good at understanding it now - but I try! Smile
I don't know if they still do this in schools these days, but when I was there it was up to the English teacher to decide what books we had to read, Shakespeare was obligatory anyway and the Shakespeare question in exams, including the one you took in what was then the Scottish Leaving Certificate, earned you the most marks.  The books we had to read in junior school were really good and suited to our age so we didn't mind, but after that we got a different teacher and I still maintain that they were a bit too much on the adult side for us to understand and appreciate.  We also had to read Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" in the original Chaucerian, not the modern English 'translation'.
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I don't know if they still do this in schools these days, but when I was there it was up to the English teacher to decide what books we had to read, Shakespeare was obligatory anyway and the Shakespeare question in exams, including the one you took in what was then the Scottish Leaving Certificate, earned you the most marks.  The books we had to read in junior school were really good and suited to our age so we didn't mind, but after that we got a different teacher and I still maintain that they were a bit too much on the adult side for us to understand and appreciate.  We also had to read Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" in the original Chaucerian, not the modern English 'translation'.

I'm not sure if Shakespeare is compulsory reading at school these days ... I think we read "The Wind in the Willows" in junior school and I still remember some of it, but I wasn't all that keen on it.  We read "Canterbury Tales" in senior school ( & yes in the original Chaucerian) - I didn't like that either!  I think we read Hamlet and Macbeth at "O" Level or at "A" Level  I can't remember which way round - but those 2 books are all right and I quite liked them.
We had to do quite a lot of poetry too - although these days I like War poetry and W.H. Auden.
Sorry about this essay, I think I'll log off now !  .......


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^ I wouldn't worry because the topic has gone off-track anyway!
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