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Andy in Miami
Apollo
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Quote from: Aileen on March 22, 2017, 09:24 pm
This from Russell Fuller of the BBC -

Russell Fuller‏ @russellcfuller  11h11 hours ago

 Andy Murray expected to fly home from Miami later for further scans on his right elbow. Not feeling 100% either, so rest on the agenda

I can't speak for his elbow, but I do know, having had it myself when I was in my 30s, that shingles can take quite a while to get over fully, no matter how young and otherwise fit you are, so basically Andy should have taken more rest at the time instead of practising 'flat out' as he claimed and then playing in Dubai and IW.  I can only hope that he hasn't put too much of the clay-court season in jeopardy, especially as he was aiming to peak at RG.

I also read where Andy was not feeling too good, and I do know depending on how bad of case of shingles you have, it can take a while for the nerve pain to go away.  I hope he gets all the treatment necessary for his elbow and whatever else is ailing him.  It's so tough when you are in the limelight, you just can't let on to your opponents what is ailing you.
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Apollo
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I just found this article....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/03/22/flu-hit-andy-murray-returns-surrey-seek-expert-opinion-injured/
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blueberryhill
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^  Cheers Apollo.
That article supports atl's idea that Andy has "over trained" in the off season. Seems to have all manner of stuff up at the mo.
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Aileen
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Quote from: blueberryhill on March 23, 2017, 06:58 am
^  Cheers Apollo.
That article supports atl's idea that Andy has "over trained" in the off season. Seems to have all manner of stuff up at the mo.
And throw into the mix the ankle injury he picked up at the AO.  The trouble with Andy is, as the article points out, that the last thing he needs is somebody like Lendl pushing him, because he's more than capable of doing it himself.  I thought he'd finally realised last year that at his age the body takes longer to recover than it did when he was younger, but perhaps in his case realising and putting into practice are two different things, something Fed, love him or loathe him, never seemed to have a problem with.

I'm not too happy about the elbow problem though, given that what the scan showed was sufficiently worrying for Andy to withdraw from one of his favourite tournaments.  Fingers crossed that it's something which is manageable, because anything involving surgical intervention doesn't bear thinking about in terms of the length of the recovery process.
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marathonarthur
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Quote from: Aileen on March 23, 2017, 02:45 pm
And throw into the mix the ankle injury he picked up at the AO.  The trouble with Andy is, as the article points out, that the last thing he needs is somebody like Lendl pushing him, because he's more than capable of doing it himself.  I thought he'd finally realised last year that at his age the body takes longer to recover than it did when he was younger, but perhaps in his case realising and putting into practice are two different things, something Fed, love him or loathe him, never seemed to have a problem with.

I'm not too happy about the elbow problem though, given that what the scan showed was sufficiently worrying for Andy to withdraw from one of his favourite tournaments.  Fingers crossed that it's something which is manageable, because anything involving surgical intervention doesn't bear thinking about in terms of the length of the recovery process.

I agree with all of that Aileen. I, personally, would have liked him to do the Davis Cup mainly to have a clay warm-up as to me participating will always help more than practice or training. In my opinion he needs to go for some easy wins to refresh his confidence and the French squad blighted with injury issues could be at the right level for him to do that. I suspect that much of the recent problems are in his mind. He MUST at all costs not go that route.

I also think that the Shingles illness has not been fully considered. My wife has some paralysis from that so I understand well how it can adversely affect the body. Even without that serious outcome, not evident with Andy, it usually takes a long while to recover from. When your body is low the mental focus can go too?
[ Last edit by marathonarthur March 24, 2017, 06:19 am ] IP Logged
blueberryhill
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Quote from: marathonarthur on March 24, 2017, 06:06 am
I suspect that much of the recent problems are in his mind. He MUST at all costs not go that route.

I also think that the Shingles illness has not been fully considered.  Even without that serious outcome, not evident with Andy, it usually takes a long while to recover from. 

You are directly contradicting yourself there.
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moonglow
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^  I really and truly don't think Andy's problems "are in his mind".  I'm sure he wouldn't have pulled out of Miami because of a mind problem.  I think having shingles didn't in the least help, and including other viruses which seemed to come from nowhere.  I think he needs to reconsider having Lendl around - surely there are other coaches to choose from.  I think Andy over-played early in the season.  I hope Andy will get good results from the scan on his elbow and come back to the tour soon - but only when he himself is ready.
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Aileen
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Quote from: marathonarthur on March 24, 2017, 06:06 am
I agree with all of that Aileen. I, personally, would have liked him to do the Davis Cup mainly to have a clay warm-up as to me participating will always help more than practice or training. In my opinion he needs to go for some easy wins to refresh his confidence and the French squad blighted with injury issues could be at the right level for him to do that. I suspect that much of the recent problems are in his mind. He MUST at all costs not go that route.

I also think that the Shingles illness has not been fully considered. My wife has some paralysis from that so I understand well how it can adversely affect the body. Even without that serious outcome, not evident with Andy, it usually takes a long while to recover from. When your body is low the mental focus can go too?
I agree with what you say at the end of the second paragraph, but to say that Andy's recent problems are in his mind certainly isn't true.

He wanted to play in Miami and had intended to play in the DC, particularly as it would be a good warm-up for the clay-court season, then he had a scan on his right elbow, which had been giving him trouble since the start of Dubai, and something showed up which was sufficiently worrying for him to pull out of both Miami and in all probability the DC.  He returned to London on Wednesday and is seeking an expert opinion on his elbow before deciding what to do next.

Now, if you had had a scan on one of your knees just before a competition because it had been giving you pain, and that scan showed up a problem which could potentially be serious, would you still have continued to run regardless?

When has Andy ever gone down that 'all in the mind' route anyway?  He could easily have given up in 2014 as a result of all the struggles he had returning from back surgery, but he didn't, although admittedly a lot of that was down to having the support of the more gentle but firm Amelie Mauresmo as his coach, Lendl having conveniently dumped him in March when it became obvious that the surgery wasn't going to be a quick fix and that recovery was likely to be a lengthy process.   Then when Andy began winning again, up pops Lendl, something which Andy greeted with delight.  Whether he'll be just as delighted now though remains to be seen, because we all know that Lendl pushed him to the limit during the off-season, and that after a physically and mentally draining end to the 2016 season, the consequences of which are there for all to see.
[ Last edit by Aileen March 24, 2017, 04:58 pm ] IP Logged
marathonarthur
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Aileen,

An apology for striking the wrong note.

I should amend my comment after consideration. I appreciate the update on the consultations that he is making. Does anyone know what sort of problems were discovered from the pre-Miami scan? I do not know what the Andy scan showed. I was simply wondering if he had convinced himself that he had a problem. All sportsmen have to avoid that scenario. Hence the 'MUST not ' comment.

I do think that all of us need to be in a totally focused situation when competing and not thinking of aches and pains. I do know that it is common to suffer pains and problems which are little indicators of something wrong or short term stress. However it is common that we do make too much of these. When this happens we compete badly and then the mind set can get worse.

Myself, I do have a permanent not recoverable problem with one paralysed muscle on my left side. I do run on regardless because it is not going to improve if I stop and if I go out thinking it a problem it will be. I have to concentrate on a style of running that will minimise it and not spend my time constantly trying to determine if it hurts. I do have lots of pains after running (but rarely for long) but then they wind me up again and I go off again and ignore them. The body will be damaged by the hard work it does to compete and that has to be accepted.  I have to not think about it because if you do then you run badly and something else suffers by a compromised technique. A similar situation applies in most sport.

I also did not mean to imply that Andy was failing to cope mentally. His losses recently he never blamed on injuries or the shingles. He blamed his play and accepted that his opponents played well. I do though think that he has looked mentally jaded these last few months and more likely to be not so focused on the winning. I mused about the shingles because 1 in 5 suffer problems that can last up to 6 months. He had a few weeks to get better.

I am hoping for better news from his London consultation. Please keep us all advised if you hear more.
[ Last edit by marathonarthur March 24, 2017, 05:13 pm ] IP Logged
jdonald
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This is amazing that lendl decided to over trainAndy surely he had been watching his play. This quite disgraceful  look what has happened. Andymustbe careful or otherwise he is introuble and I feelso much for him. The one thing he has achieved No.1 inthe world a wonderful achievement.This not good he must be going through a lot at the moment and wondering what to do. Just rest Andy and recover
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Aileen
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@MA - Apology accepted.

No we have no idea what the scan showed, or even just what exactly the problem is, and Andy being Andy, we're unlikely to find out.  After all we still have absolutely no idea what his back op was all about. 

I might juat have been prepared to go down the psychosomatic pain road because I know only too well how the mind can affect the body, particularly in times of stress, but the fact that the scan actually indicated something physical rules that out.

Andy, like all the other players, has said that he's used to playing through the pain of various niggles, which are part and parcel of playing sport, particularly at that high intensity level - and let's not forget that for about two years he played through the misery of his back problem, winning two Slams and an Olympic gold during that time, something which makes these successes all the more remarkable.

Meanwhile just keep watching the forum for any updates to the elbow issue and keep your fingers crossed, as we all are, that it isn't anything serious.
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marathonarthur
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Aileen, no apology needed. I have my own little theories, usually totally unintelligible to others but somehow they work for me! I also didn't realise that the scan showed something. It might have shown nothing and he was still chasing a perceived problem.

Andy is pretty tough, in my opinion, so not so liable to 'give in' as others but we all can waiver under pressure and doubt.

I have everything crossed too!
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