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Murray vs Raonic: Predictions
Murray in 2 - 11 (36.7%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (56.7%)
Raonic in 2 - 0 (0%)
Raonic in 3 - 2 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 30

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Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct
OldScotSupport
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Well at least for Shanghai, neither Raonic nor Berdych is in Andy's half of the draw. He is with Fartface.
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Masaka
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Quote from: OldScotSupport on October 06, 2012, 10:35 am
Well at least for Shanghai, neither Raonic nor Berdych is in Andy's half of the draw. He is with Fartface.


As I said on the other thread, if someone is tired and in pain getting fractious and stroppy is a fairly normal reaction. The lad is physically and mentally overtired. Just think for a moment what he has actually achieved this year:-
1) First Brit in a Wimbledon Final for 76 years
2) First men's singles Gold Medalist in 104 years. Getting it involved picking himself up after losing the Wimbledon Final 4 weeks earlier. The boys has amazing guts.
3) First British GS winner for 76 years - achieving the gold he has been working towards since he was about 11 years old. Remember the presentation ceremony for that, he was wincing with every movement. That has to have taken a major toll on his body.

And people are worrying because he reverts back to old habits from time to time. (Not getting at you personally), but folks do demand too much from the poor GS holding sod sometimes. If he needs to throw a wobbler then let him, if he needs to. He isn't perfect, but then I am not either and I doubt many if us are. He reacts in his way, might not be the politically correct way like Tim H, but Tim H didn't reach any GS Finals either. I'll take Mr M as he is - warts and all. Bring on 2013...!!!
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hulahoop
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I cant believe I fell asleep during the last set, must be age and the effects of the previous nights ( although I didn't stay awake on Thursday).
I'm not too downhearted though. I've been touting Raonic as top 5 for ages now, Very Happy though not as long as I did for Andy being a GS winner, I predicted on here in 2006 that he would win the 2008 US Open......oops!

I'm getting to the stage where I'm only really going to be worried about Masters and GS's.

:p Oh, and my sleep! I love the Aus Open but not the effects it has on my body clock
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MT
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Quote from: OldScotSupport on October 06, 2012, 10:25 am
Giving the probability that Andy was play weary and that his back was hurting, I am still disappointed at Andy's loss especially as he was 4-1 up in the 3rd.

Having said all that my major concern is Andy's resorting to cursing and swearing and shouting at his support team.

TJ good posts as ever and restating Boris Beccker's comment " that he only lost a match. nobody died"

Cursing and swearing and shouting at his support team. All the players swear and break rackets. Its up to the officials to tell them they shouldn't do it and I wish they would cos it is bad for kids watching. If they lost the next point they would think twice about it. He has to find a way of getting fired up without swearing and hitting himself and the racket and the court. It seems to work when he goes "'mon!!"
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hulahoop
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Quote from: MT on October 06, 2012, 11:31 am
Cursing and swearing and shouting at his support team. All the players swear and break rackets. Its up to the officials to tell them they shouldn't do it and I wish they would cos it is bad for kids watching. If they lost the next point they would think twice about it. He has to find a way of getting fired up without swearing and hitting himself and the racket and the court. It seems to work when he goes "'mon!!"
Completely agree. Frown That was the "old" Andy who couldn't win a Slam.
Hopefully Ivan will give him a right bollocking, because, unlike the Jonny Macs of this world, it doesn't make Andy play better, it uses up vital emotional and physical energy.

I suppose old habits die hard.
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michelle
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Quote from: hulahoop on October 06, 2012, 11:38 am
Completely agree. Frown That was the "old" Andy who couldn't win a Slam.
Hopefully Ivan will give him a right bollocking, because, unlike the Jonny Macs of this world, it doesn't make Andy play better, it uses up vital emotional and physical energy.

I suppose old habits die hard.
I really don't think that for one moment that Ivan will give him a bollocking. He will be far more understanding than some members on this forum. As others have pointed out Andy was I think in pain with his back as well as physically and mentally tired. Both Nole and Del Po when they won the USO lost in their early rounds in their next tournament. It is a very physically and tiring tournament coming at the end of the year. So Andy did very well to reach the semi's and now will have a few days to get a little rest and have some work done on his back.
[ Last edit by michelle October 06, 2012, 12:05 pm ] IP Logged
Masaka
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Quote from: michelle on October 06, 2012, 11:44 am
I really don't think that for one moment that Ivan will give him a bollocking. He will be far more understanding thnt some members on this forum. As others have pointed out Andy was I think in pain with his back as well as physically and mentally tired. Both Nole and Del Po when they won the USO lost in their early rounds in their next tournament. It is a very physically and tiring tournament coming at the end of the year. So Andy did very well to reach the semi's and now will have a few days to get a little rest and have some work done on his back.

Well said - yes he shouldn't swear and beat up his racket, but being in pain and overtired will do that to the most rational of us. He is in a no win situation here, when he cries folks condemn him, when he rants people condemn him. Is he also Kim less this week?
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teejay1
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Quote from: hulahoop on October 06, 2012, 11:38 am
Completely agree. Frown That was the "old" Andy who couldn't win a Slam.
Hopefully Ivan will give him a right bollocking, because, unlike the Jonny Macs of this world, it doesn't make Andy play better, it uses up vital emotional and physical energy.

I suppose old habits die hard.

That's right isn't it, because giving him a bollocking will really help.

Lendl, unlike any of us, has won majors, and understands the process of winning. He also understands, I'm sure, how much that takes out of a player. Lendl was probably fully aware that a lull would be likely at some point, and I'm sure his approach will be to focus on making sure Andy is all right, and how they get things back on track. I'm sure Lendl is already thinking, as I hope Andy is, about Shanghai, Paris and the WTF. They are more important to Andy now than Tokyo ever was, as much as defending the title there would have been good.

Oh, and the issue about kids watching and Andy's language. Please, it's competitive sport. If you can't cope with watching two players fighting it out in a high octane, one-on-one sport like tennis for fear that your angelic little darlings will hear naughty words, then don't watch, or don't watch while they are around. I'm not saying I agree with the language, but I do think it is understandable in the situation, which is highly stressful.

Frankly, this obsession with Andy's language from some, and the broadcaster's obsession with apologising for it, drives me mad. I can think of far worse things he could do than using the odd four letter word.
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tamila
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As has been said the players know that when they win against injured top guys it is a 'hollow victory' although they would never admit it and, of course, Andy would never use it as a excuse in public but he will know that is the reason.  I know the feeling of winning against someone who you should not beat when they are injured (not tennis though swimming competition).  You feel a little bit good but not like when you win fair and square.  Andy played way more hours at the USO than Raonic who has only played one match since I believe.

I do not know if it is only me but there is something I do not like about Milos.  His face annoys me for some reason I cannot fathom.

I still do not know how at the moment Andy can go below Nadal again.
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Alis
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I was actually quite pleased when I saw him showing some emotion -  he seemed totally flat in the first set.  I don't condone him swearing but, like TJ, commentators constantly apologising for it and drawing everybody's attention to it drives me nuts.  Kids hear far worse in the school playground every day!
[ Last edit by Alis October 06, 2012, 12:09 pm ] IP Logged
tamila
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As you say you can hear worse in the playground of any school or even walking behind them on their way to school.  I was quite shocked at first but now it just washes over me.
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hulahoop
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I'm not condemning his language/behaviour. I'm just pointing out that it does zero for his tennis. It used to fire up Mac, it actively helped him.
Hell, I've been following Andy for 8 years now, watched most televised matches and stared at scoreboards when there was no coverage, I'm not criticising him. I doubt you'll find a much bigger fan and, although I've neglected this forum for ages until I had to come back and post after the US, I've been here since the beginning.
I'm just noting that with Lendl he has shown a much calmer, mature approach which has paid dividends. He's the first coach that I feel he truly respects ( Brad would have sent me round the bend too!) and he listens to him.
What do you want, Andy pre Lendl, or post Lendl? The talent is there and has been for ever, mentally not so much with every Slam loss. Lendl has changed that and Andy listens to him. Maybe "bollocking" was the wong word, but "discuss it" might be productive. IMO it's a trait he needs to lose forever.
Borg and Federer were both tempestuous racket breakers at the start of their careers. They soon realised it was counter productive. Borg had a terrible temper off court, I doubt you'd have got that from his demeanor on the tennis court.
Contrarily Andy off court seems a shy, well mannered sweetie who I think I'd love to spend time with ( well in the confines that he's young enough to be nearly my grandson!).
I hope that clarifies my earlier post. Smile
[ Last edit by hulahoop October 06, 2012, 12:40 pm ] IP Logged
Masaka
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Hulahoop - I do agree with you that it does nothing for his tennis, but as  I have pointed out, you can learn new coping skills but there is still a tendency to revert back at times of high stress. He is getting there, but it takes more than nine months to permanently change the habits of a life time. I know he is not a child, but sometimes he comes over as one, (not intending to patronise him here. i know because at twice his age I get like it), When kids get overtired, sometimes you have to be firm with them and take their gadgets away and send them early to bed for a few days. I also do think he is a highly complex character, who still has unresolved issues about the Dunblane massacre. I no more believe his comments that because he doesn't remember much about it, it hasn't effected him than I believe the moon is made of cheese. It has to have done - the whole huilt of ghe survivor issues, as well as those brought about by growing up in a community grieving for its lost children.  we don't even need to mention the subsequent impact of his parents splitting up soon after. I just wish sometimes people would remember what he has been through and cut him a lot more slack than they do.
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Ruthie
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Of course ideally Andy wouldn't be using up energy shouting at his box and swearing etc.  (But when he does, he's getting down on himself rather than blaming them usually [as I've not watched most of the match can't say for sure this time]). 
And he knows all that too.  He has quite often spoken recently about being more mature on court and not using up energy in that way.  But in the heat of the moment, especially if feeling mentally and physically tired and knowing that an old injury is causing problems again, can we really blame him?  As someone said earlier, let's cut him some slack.
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circe
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I think the difference is that his open frustration didn't actually carry though into his tennis this time.  And that is a great milestone.  His first serve worked really well and he didn't miss many lines - with an annoying exception on match point.  But Raonic played better on the day, especially net volleys.    The silver lining is that Andy will have a less jam-packed season next year, without these back to back titles to defend.
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MurraysWorld  >  Andy Talk  >  Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct