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WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
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Poll
Predictions
Murray in 2
10 (62.5%)
Murray in 3
3 (18.8%)
Raonic in 2
0 (0%)
Raonic in 3
1 (6.3%)
There Will Be Tiebreaks
2 (12.5%)
Total Voters: 16
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WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
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circe
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Posts: 1,475
cos Andy you're a star
circe
Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 19, 2016, 10:15 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Aileen on November 19, 2016, 07:05 pm
The on-court interview but you'd better watch the video quickly before it gets taken down for breach of copy right.
I was in time. Thank you, chica
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Philip
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 19, 2016, 10:18 pm »
Quote
Djokovic had a massive advantage of an extra day rest on Friday whereas Andy has to play 3 consecutive matches. Not fair. I anticipate Andy will run out of energy tomorrow but will go down fighting
Djokovic had the easier group as well
Never mind. Andy will regain the #1 ranking in Q1 next year.
Raonic has shown himself to be very dangerous. Andy still needs a bit more power in his FH to help finish points quicker to conserve energy.
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vegliaborletti
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 19, 2016, 11:26 pm »
Quote
Murray was magnificent today. [again]. Particularly after having to nullify Stan Wawrinka. [again].
I always thought that Djokovic was in some way
harder
than Murray. After watching today, in particular, it's very clear that he sure as heck ain't
tougher
than Murray - who must surely be the toughest tennis player on the planet.
That match today was worth the entire annual BBC licence fee. Talk about value for money.
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 19, 2016, 11:47 pm »
Quote
Quote from: vegliaborletti on November 19, 2016, 11:26 pm
Murray was magnificent today. [again]. Particularly after having to nullify Stan Wawrinka. [again].
I always thought that Djokovic was in some way
harder
than Murray. After watching today, in particular, it's very clear that he sure as heck ain't
tougher
than Murray - who must surely be the toughest tennis player on the planet.
That match today was worth the entire annual BBC licence fee. Talk about value for money.
Don't tell the BBC that or they might put the fee up!
Djoko has always had a fragility about him, something Murray has never had, so even when he was winning everything in sight I often felt that he was on the verge of a breakdown of some kind. Now he's made his own woes by his off-court indiscretions, something I have no sympathy for. In fact when I looked at him and Murray today, it was Djoko who looked the more fatigued, despite all his rest and easier draw, but then that's what carrying emotional baggage around with you does.
[ Last edit by Aileen November 19, 2016, 11:50 pm ]
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vegliaborletti
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 12:33 am »
Quote
Quote from: Aileen on November 19, 2016, 11:47 pm
In fact when I looked at him and Murray today, it was Djoko who looked the more fatigued, despite all his rest and easier draw, but then that's what carrying emotional baggage around with you does.
I had hoped that he might have lost interest a bit, after winning RG. Even a tiny loss of interest at that level could be devastating. Interest can't really be conjured up or reawakened, in the way you might retrain, re-equip or re-focus, e.g., to address a problem. When it does come back, it's so often fleeting.
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 01:05 am »
Quote
Quote from: vegliaborletti on November 20, 2016, 12:33 am
I had hoped that he might have lost interest a bit, after winning RG. Even a tiny loss of interest at that level could be devastating. Interest can't really be conjured up or reawakened, in the way you might retrain, re-equip or re-focus, e.g., to address a problem. When it does come back, it's so often fleeting.
According to Djokovic himself, he did lose his motivation after winning RG. Seems that finally winning the one Slam he didn't have took its toll and that he went into a slump, something which wasn't helped by once again losing out on an Olympic medal (that really did hurt him). Since then he's achieved nothing apart from surfacing briefly in Toronto, beating Nishikori in the final and claiming his 30th Masters title, so you could be right about that being a fleeting resurgence, although in fairness he has picked up a few injuries, starting with the USO. Now he's trying to make his comeback here to grab back the #1 spot and end the year as that. If he had had a less jammy draw, then from what I've seen so far (and that excludes tonight's match) he might have been lucky to reach the semis, let alone get to the top of his group. OK so he might well win tomorrow, but the early part of next season could be interesting given how many titles he has to defend, particularly as it's been rumoured in reliable sources that Becker's coaching contract won't be renewed for next year.
[ Last edit by Aileen November 20, 2016, 01:12 am ]
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sengamac
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 01:21 am »
Quote
If Andy doesn't win tomorrow I have every faith he will do so early in the year.
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 01:29 am »
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So do I sengamac.
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vegliaborletti
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 01:30 am »
Quote
Quote from: Aileen on November 20, 2016, 01:05 am
According to Djokovic himself, he did lose his motivation after winning RG. Seems that finally winning the one Slam he didn't have took its toll and that he went into a slump, something which wasn't helped by once again losing out on an Olympic medal (that really did hurt him). Since then he's achieved nothing apart from surfacing briefly in Toronto, beating Nishikori in the final and claiming his 30th Masters title, so you could be right about that being a fleeting resurgence, although in fairness he has picked up a few injuries, starting with the USO. Now he's trying to make his comeback here to grab back the #1 spot and end the year as that. If he had had a less jammy draw, then from what I've seen so far (and that excludes tonight's match) he might have been lucky to reach the semis, let alone get to the top of his group. OK so he might well win tomorrow, but the early part of next season could be interesting given how many titles he has to defend, particularly as it's been rumoured in reliable sources that Becker's coaching contract won't be renewed for next year.
Well whatever happened to Rory McIlroy e.g. may still be happening to Novak, albeit to a lesser degree.
I'm still making the distinction between
interest
and, as you say,
motivation
- his own word. You can re-motivate in any number of ways, but I'm not sure that you can reinvigorate interest. Let's say if something loses it's appeal or excitement e.g. - that for me is much more deep-rooted. Sorry about the semantics!
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 02:20 am »
Quote
Quote from: vegliaborletti on November 20, 2016, 01:30 am
Well whatever happened to Rory McIlroy e.g. may still be happening to Novak, albeit to a lesser degree.
I'm still making the distinction between
interest
and, as you say,
motivation
- his own word. You can re-motivate in any number of ways, but I'm not sure that you can reinvigorate interest. Let's say if something loses it's appeal or excitement e.g. - that for me is much more deep-rooted. Sorry about the semantics!
No probs Veggie because I think I can see where you're coming from. Basically as I understand it, if you aren't interested in something, e.g. learning a particular subject at school, then how can you possibly be motivated to do well in it? Some people are able to force themselves to do well but, as far as I'm concerned forcing yourself like that is only likely to stifle any glimmer of interest you might have had rather than stimulate it, and you certainly can't force something to appeal to you anyway.
So in Novak's case it's very possible that the appeal of having all four Slams under his belt evaporated after he won RG. There was probably no excitement left in winning either because having won that, plus the fact that he'd already been winning tournament after tournament for about two years and was miles ahead of the rest of the field in ranking points, there was no longer a #1 spot to strive for, and not a great deal of competition as well (this year in particular), just a mountain of ranking points to defend. He was certainly very keen (but does 'keen' = 'interest'?) to get his hands on an Olympic medal, but Del Potro put an abrupt end to that, albeit by the very narrowest of margins, and Djoko was seen, and photographed, walking off the court in tears. So I suppose it begs the question, has he got any real motivation back, or is he only interested in ending the year as #1, probably more as a matter of pride than anything else? So he may well win tomorrow, but next year could be a different matter if he hasn't got his interest 100% back.
[ Last edit by Aileen November 20, 2016, 02:25 am ]
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vegliaborletti
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 02:47 am »
Quote
Quote from: Aileen on November 20, 2016, 02:20 am
No probs Veggie because I think I can see where you're coming from. Basically as I understand it, if you aren't interested in something, e.g. learning a particular subject at school, then how can you possibly be motivated to do well in it? Some people are able to force themselves to do well but, as far as I'm concerned forcing yourself like that is only likely to stifle any glimmer of interest you might have had rather than stimulate it, and you certainly can't force something to appeal to you anyway.
So in Novak's case it's very possible that the appeal of having all four Slams under his belt evaporated after he won RG. There was probably no excitement left in winning either because having won that, plus the fact that he'd already been winning tournament after tournament for about two years and was miles ahead of the rest of the field in ranking points, there was no longer a #1 spot to strive for, and not a great deal of competition as well (this year in particular), just a mountain of ranking points to defend. He was certainly very keen (but does 'keen' = 'interest'?) to get his hands on an Olympic medal, but Del Potro put an abrupt end to that, albeit by the very narrowest of margins, and Djoko was seen, and photographed, walking off the court in tears. So I suppose it begs the question, has he got any real motivation back, or is he only interested in ending the year as #1, probably more as a matter of pride than anything else? So he may well win tomorrow, but next year could be a different matter if he hasn't got his interest 100% back.
Once interest goes things can be very difficult in any area of life - and it tends to go gradually. Distraction is a giveaway - the "giving of himself" routine when he wins is almost an effort to stimulate external interest. Whatever happens tomorrow, I hope he spares us that. Muhammad Ali could do that. Usain Bolt can do that. Roger Federer
might just
get away with doing that. Novak doing that makes for uncomfortable viewing unfortunately. It's bum clenching to watch actually - he should stick to business.
Oh, and about Novak walking off the court after his defeat to Del Potro. He wasn't in tears - he was bubbling.
No matter what happens tomorrow, as far as I'm concerned Murray's already done the bizzo.
Here's hoping for a surprise win.
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 03:25 am »
Quote
Unfortunately I've just listened to a video of Novak talking about tomorrow and he sounds worryingly up for it, but then talking and actually doing don't always go together. Andy on the other hand is his usually pragmatic self. Obviously he would like to win, but he also knows he's knackered physically, mentally and emotionally. Yes he'll try to do his best, but basically he's quite happy just to have got to the final for the first time, and that after a long gruelling, very tight match. No doubt there will be the usual mutterings, etc, but that's just how he is - a perfectionist who is his own worst critic - and I wouldn't want him any other way.
I cannot stand Novak's "giving of himself" either. It's just so cringeworthy. But no doubt we'll be treated to it again if he wins tomorrow because he simply can't himself.
I was actually being tactful when I said that about Novak being in tears, because the one pic I found certainly doesn't make for edifying viewing!
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Ruthie
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 04:06 pm »
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Aileen I'm sure Novak will be very much up for it because today is about record books and all that - so it's sufficient to rekindle the motivation. I thought he looked pretty bored against Goffin but then of course it counted for nothing other than the points he needed to keep pace with Andy and he knew he'd be able to beat him without too much bother. Also he'll know how to exploit Andy's tiredness unfortunately.
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Aileen
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 09:45 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Ruthie on November 20, 2016, 04:06 pm
Aileen I'm sure Novak will be very much up for it because today is about record books and all that - so it's sufficient to rekindle the motivation. I thought he looked pretty bored against Goffin but then of course it counted for nothing other than the points he needed to keep pace with Andy and he knew he'd be able to beat him without too much bother. Also he'll know how to exploit Andy's tiredness unfortunately.
Very interesting to read that post now Ruthie, as well as my own one!
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blueberryhill
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Re: WTF 2016 SF: Andy Murray vs Milos Raonic
« on: November 20, 2016, 09:55 pm »
Quote
Well in actual fact Nole looked more tired.
Lots of speculation about his diet elsewhere......oh and his guru. He seemed to be meditating at changeover, wonder what Boris thought of that.
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