[althusser]

they also want what is best for Scotland - ultimately that's what everyone would want - the best deal for the country you live in.

I understand that sentiment. But 'ultimately' I would prefer a political project which recognised that large parts of the north of England, parts of Scotland and some other parts of the UK were all in equal need of focused efforts to tackle shared problems of inequality.

[Iluvandy]

I don't know or really care if they're too stupid, or whether - as I suspect - there's another agenda in play. That boost in vote for the SNP may well be significantly attributable to the loony 45 contingent. It's  irrelevant as well - you're just looking for something to fake outrage over.

What do you think about England and Wales voting in increasing numbers for the Conservatives?

I don't do fake outrage.    I don't really do outrage having lived long enough to realise it's a waste of energy to be outraged when I have no control over the outcome. 
Very irritated from time to time but that's it.    As for the Tory vote,  I don't know the figures for England and Wales but for the UK as a whole  0.8% isn't exactly overwhelming.

[Iluvandy]

"The loony 45 contingent" I take exception to that - they are people that believe in and want to campaign for something they feel strongly about.  It's a free country and people are allowed to believe, follow and campaign for their cause doesn't make them "loony". 
I think the increase in the Tory vote in England and Wales is a reflection of the fact there is very little other choice.

What I find bizarre about this thread now is that there are all these people South of the border with such strong opinions about Scotland and its Government - sometimes you can't back things up with a chart, graph or stats - we are living here and can see the difference this government is making to life in Scotland.  Of course they want to finally achieve independence it's their aim, but they are also appealing to a large percentage of the electorate because they also want what is best for Scotland - ultimately that's what everyone would want - the best deal for the country you live in.

I've objected to boogers' way of expressing himself MM but I don't think it will make any difference.    I think he gets excited and a bit emotional when posting.    Needs to grow up really.   Agree with you about the best deal business.   It's what we all want - we just don't always agree on how to go about it.       

[Iluvandy]

We've been through this... with the exception of independence the SNP's agenda is not "something different". Just look at the manifesto promises - somewhere between Labour and the Lib Dems. If independence is what you're after then it's not something that's going to benefit the disadvantaged in the country. Quite the opposite given the state of an independent Scottish economy.

Yes we have been through this.    We have been through Labour and Tory ways of running the country.    Neither worked.    The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.    I repeat it's time for something different.    You don't think it will work.    I do.     No common ground there.    But what I do know is that the system that has been tried, all through my life, does NOT work for everybody.    Time for a change.,

[Iluvandy]

But what is different, exactly? The last five years of SNP government hasn't exactly done a whole lot to address things either.

I mean, I could understand it if you were advocating voting for a party that truly had a radical agenda. But you're not. In fact, the only radical agenda item the SNP were proposing would have brought catastrophic economic damage upon your country. Which is why they've suddenly gone very very very quiet on the subject.

What is different is that I know what HASN'T worked - Westminster - and what I've been happier with - Holyrood.     I'm not looking for miracles but just moving towards a fairer society.    Five years is nothing.   What about the past  55 of Westminster?   

[Iluvandy]

I'm not defending Labour. But what the SNP offers can't address the point I was arguing for as they only have a political project for a part of the UK.

It's the only part they can influence.    You have to start somewhere.   If we could achieve a fairer society and it had a knock-on effect elsewhere I'd be more than happy.   But I'm not happy with if I can't do it all I won't do anything.

[Littlebuddha]

Booger does not understand why people in Scotland vote SNP. It would not matter if you put all the facts and charts under his nose he accuses many of us as being stubborn that may be so but he cannot understand why. Perhaps it doesn't come down to facts and figures but the way we feel about Scotland. As far as many are concerned we are happy with the progress the SNP has made and will continue to do. He is apparently trying to convert us for what, a Tory government who are going to make the poor worse of and a Labour party who are a copy of the Tories. We don't want that, why doesn't he put all his energy in trying to convert them, because he knows nothing he says or does will make any difference.
 

[Iluvandy]

Try this one.    SNP are the government of Scotland and, by and large, people think they are better off with them than with Westminster of whatever colour.    You can't know this but this feels a different place now.   I would say things can only get better but last time that was said, they didn't.