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MurraysWorld  >  Chit Chat  >  2015 UK General Election
Poll
Who will you vote for?  (Voting closed: May 08, 2015, 11:20 am)
Conservative - 13 (32.5%)
Labour - 8 (20%)
UKIP - 3 (7.5%)
Lib Dems - 1 (2.5%)
Greens - 4 (10%)
SNP - 10 (25%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Sinn Féin - 0 (0%)
DUP - 0 (0%)
BNP - 0 (0%)
Other? - 1 (2.5%)
Total Voters: 40

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2015 UK General Election
Fiverings
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Quote from: boogers on June 03, 2015, 12:42 pm

Hit me with some facts and lets discuss them.

OK. In Government since 2007, returned in 2011 with an outright majority under a PR system designed to make that extremely unlikely. 56 out of 59 seats returned at UK GE, 1,450,000 votes, over 50% vote . Even with your blinkers, Boogers, you have to start asking what's going on, not spouting reams of stats "proving" that it doesn't make sense.

PS Don't expect a quick reply - I'm off to do other things right now!
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Daisy
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Quote from: Iluvandy on June 03, 2015, 12:59 pm
Try this one.    SNP are the government of Scotland and, by and large, people think they are better off with them than with Westminster of whatever colour.    You can't know this but this feels a different place now.   I would say things can only get better but last time that was said, they didn't.

You are correct ... It does feel a different place and I am not alone in saying it makes me feel very uneasy.
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Iluvandy
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Quote from: Daisy on June 03, 2015, 01:27 pm
You are correct ... It does feel a different place and I am not alone in saying it makes me feel very uneasy.

It is a different place to live in but I didn't say everyone was happy.   That's not possible.    But the majority feel more positive about their participation in politics.
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boogers
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Quote from: Fiverings on June 03, 2015, 01:13 pm
OK. In Government since 2007, returned in 2011 with an outright majority under a PR system designed to make that extremely unlikely. 56 out of 59 seats returned at UK GE, 1,450,000 votes, over 50% vote . Even with your blinkers, Boogers, you have to start asking what's going on, not spouting reams of stats "proving" that it doesn't make sense.

PS Don't expect a quick reply - I'm off to do other things right now!

Quote from: Iluvandy on June 03, 2015, 12:59 pm
Try this one.    SNP are the government of Scotland and, by and large, people think they are better off with them than with Westminster of whatever colour.    You can't know this but this feels a different place now.   I would say things can only get better but last time that was said, they didn't.

So, to paraphrase your argument: the SNP increased their share of the vote therefore they must be doing a good job?
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Murray Magic
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"So, to paraphrase your argument: the SNP increased their share of the vote therefore they must be doing a good job? "

Well yes - or else they would not get the support - that would seem sensible to me.  Do a good job in Government and you stand a better chance of being re-elected and increasing your share of the vote.
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Murray Magic
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Quote from: Daisy on June 03, 2015, 01:27 pm
You are correct ... It does feel a different place and I am not alone in saying it makes me feel very uneasy.

Obviously there will be differences of opinion - that is only natural but I would have to say from a personal point of view the number of people that I have come across or spoken to that feel it is a positive thing to have happened to Scottish Politics is greater than those that feel it has been a negative thing.
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Iluvandy
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Why paraphrase.    Read what I said.    By and large people think they are better off with SNP than anything offered by tired, same old, same old, Westminster politics.
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Daisy
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Quote from: Iluvandy on June 03, 2015, 01:37 pm
It is a different place to live in but I didn't say everyone was happy.   That's not possible.    But the majority feel more positive about their participation in politics.

I did not suggest that you had stated everyone was happy .   
However I am in the fortunate position of being able to leave which would be a pity as I like Scotland.  But there have been times where I have felt intimidated by some of the nats.  I also  believe that Sturgeon will have to watch her step between now and the election ... After that, if she succeeds, I would imagine all bets are off.
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boogers
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Quote from: Murray Magic on June 03, 2015, 01:54 pm
Well yes - or else they would not get the support - that would seem sensible to me.  Do a good job in Government and you stand a better chance of being re-elected and increasing your share of the vote.

Ok. So does that metric not apply to the Conservatives?
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boogers
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Quote from: Daisy on June 03, 2015, 02:05 pm
I did not suggest that you had stated everyone was happy .  
However I am in the fortunate position of being able to leave which would be a pity as I like Scotland.  But there have been times where I have felt intimidated by some of the nats.  I also  believe that Sturgeon will have to watch her step between now and the election ... After that, if she succeeds, I would imagine all bets are off.

It's going to be difficult for her - she clearly realises that independence is economically impossible now. So I'm not sure how she's going to manage to placate the nutters in the long term.
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boogers
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Quote from: Iluvandy on June 03, 2015, 01:59 pm
By and large people think they are better off with SNP than anything offered by tired, same old, same old, Westminster politics.

But that doesn't mean they are doing a better job, does it?
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Iluvandy
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Quote from: Daisy on June 03, 2015, 02:05 pm
I did not suggest that you had stated everyone was happy .   
However I am in the fortunate position of being able to leave which would be a pity as I like Scotland.  But there have been times where I have felt intimidated by some of the nats.  I also  believe that Sturgeon will have to watch her step between now and the election ... After that, if she succeeds, I would imagine all bets are off.

I am also in the fortunate position of being able to leave if I so wish, but wild horses would not drag me away at this interesting time in Scottish politics.   Politicians of every party watch their step approaching an election - maybe  only then.    I don't understand "all bets are off".   You make her sound a bit of a bogeywoman.    Should I fall on evil times,  I'd sooner be at the mercy of Nicola Sturgeon than David Cameron.
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Iluvandy
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Quote from: boogers on June 03, 2015, 02:09 pm
But that doesn't mean they are doing a better job, does it?

Depends how the individual feels.    Not for you obviously.   Over the last 20 years or so, I've been  happier, politically, than at any time in my life.    I can only speak for myself and how I feel.     I will paraphrase "The more I see of Westminster, the more I like Holyrood."
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Iluvandy
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Quote from: boogers on June 03, 2015, 02:08 pm
It's going to be difficult for her - she clearly realises that independence is economically impossible now. So I'm not sure how she's going to manage to placate the nutters in the long term.

Depends how many nutters she has to deal with, doesn't it.    How adept she is.    How much support she has from non-nutters.   Interesting.
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colincro
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Quote from: boogers on June 03, 2015, 12:42 pm

Then there was a bunch of noise about how the Scottish are more outward looking and socialist than the rest of Britain - disproven, they aren't.


Editorial comment and some rather spurious, narrow surveys prove absolutely nothing.  To gauge a country’s voting tendencies, just look at General Election results.  Over the last fifteen Labour and SNP (once) have garnered the most votes in Scotland all fifteen times.  England voted conservative eleven times from fifteen and two of the Labour wins (97/01) required a lurch to the right and re-branding to New Labour.

Further, in the 2010 election right wing parties (Con/UKIP) achieved 17.4 % of the vote in Scotland v 16.5% in 2015.   While in England the same block was 39.5% v 55.1%.   So not only is it clear that Scotland votes more to the left, the gap has widened considerably over the last five years.

Reasons for Scotland being generally more left wing than England are deep-rooted cultural and historic factors way too complex to try and discuss in this post.  And the fact that Scotland is the land of both the father of capitalism (Adam Smith) and the father of the UK Labour movement (Keir Hardie), only complicates matters.

What really mystifies me is why you waste so much energy trying to argue against what is so empirically obvious.   England is an incredibly successful country, with one of the most important histories of any in the world.  Why does the fact that Scotland is more left wing than England offend you so much?
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