MurraysWorld  >  Chit Chat  >  2015 UK General Election
Poll
Who will you vote for?  (Voting closed: May 08, 2015, 11:20 am)
Conservative - 13 (32.5%)
Labour - 8 (20%)
UKIP - 3 (7.5%)
Lib Dems - 1 (2.5%)
Greens - 4 (10%)
SNP - 10 (25%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Sinn Féin - 0 (0%)
DUP - 0 (0%)
BNP - 0 (0%)
Other? - 1 (2.5%)
Total Voters: 40

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2015 UK General Election

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Depends how the individual feels.

No, it doesn't. "Doing better" is something that can be objectively measured: is the NHS reaching targets, is poverty dropping, is the education system improving, whatever.
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Editorial comment and some rather spurious, narrow surveys prove absolutely nothing.  To gauge a country’s voting tendencies, just look at General Election results.

That's an exceptionally poor way of measuring it. The Conservative party, SNP, Lib Dems and Labour Party are all clustered around a very narrow centrist ground - none are particularly socialist.

Given that, single issues tend to skew things rather markedly such as EU membership for UKIP or IndyRef for SNP. I also object to your description of the British Social Attitudes survey as "spurious" and "narrow" - not only has it been running since 1983, but the methodology has been widely peer reviewed.

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What really mystifies me is why you waste so much energy trying to argue against what is so empirically obvious.

Because it isn't "empirically obvious" at anything more than the most naive and superficial level.
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^ Do you feel the government is doing its best on your behalf or do you feel the government is working against you and for others.      Measure that.,
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No, it doesn't. "Doing better" is something that can be objectively measured: is the NHS reaching targets, is poverty dropping, is the education system improving, whatever.

Re the NHS reaching targets ... A situation exists at the surgery I attend where they operate same day appointments.  If you want to see the GP you are registered with you  can expect a four week wait.  I recently spent 4 1/2 months getting bounced from one lo um to another and ended up going privately to resolve my problem.  So, doesn't feel like the NHS is operating too smoothly inmy neck of the woods.
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That's an exceptionally poor way of measuring it. The Conservative party, SNP, Lib Dems and Labour Party are all clustered around a very narrow centrist ground - none are particularly socialist.

Given that, single issues tend to skew things rather markedly such as EU membership for UKIP or IndyRef for SNP. I also object to your description of the British Social Attitudes survey as "spurious" and "narrow" - not only has it been running since 1983, but the methodology has been widely peer reviewed.


I think that if you are trying to say that core Labour/snp voters and core tory voters are separated by a single issue then your aim here is just to provoke and antagonise.  You can't truly believe what you are writing.

Also, most sample size of British Social Attitudes survey is around 3,000 people. And one of the surveys you quoted was 1,000. So yes, they are narrow.
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If only I could be less naive and superficial.    I would be like boogers.   
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I am so superficial I have lost interest and am off to watch my Andy.
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I think that if you are trying to say that core Labour/snp voters and core tory voters are separated by a single issue then your aim here is just to provoke and antagonise.  You can't truly believe what you are writing.

I'm suggesting that eg. the violent swing from Labour to the SNP wasn't driven by actual manifesto policies.

I'm also suggesting that on the left-right continuum there's not much difference between the mainstream parties.

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Also, most sample size of British Social Attitudes survey is around 3,000 people. And one of the surveys you quoted was 1,000. So yes, they are narrow.

Actually, a sample size of 3000 is a statistically reasonable one for this purpose.
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Editorial comment and some rather spurious, narrow surveys prove absolutely nothing.  To gauge a country’s voting tendencies, just look at General Election results.  Over the last fifteen Labour and SNP (once) have garnered the most votes in Scotland all fifteen times.  England voted conservative eleven times from fifteen and two of the Labour wins (97/01) required a lurch to the right and re-branding to New Labour.

Further, in the 2010 election right wing parties (Con/UKIP) achieved 17.4 % of the vote in Scotland v 16.5% in 2015.   While in England the same block was 39.5% v 55.1%.   So not only is it clear that Scotland votes more to the left, the gap has widened considerably over the last five years.

Reasons for Scotland being generally more left wing than England are deep-rooted cultural and historic factors way too complex to try and discuss in this post.  And the fact that Scotland is the land of both the father of capitalism (Adam Smith) and the father of the UK Labour movement (Keir Hardie), only complicates matters.

What really mystifies me is why you waste so much energy trying to argue against what is so empirically obvious.   England is an incredibly successful country, with one of the most important histories of any in the world.  Why does the fact that Scotland is more left wing than England offend you so much?

your assumption is that voting is a pure expression of ideological values. But it is isn't. Dominant models of electoral behaviour focus on economic conditions, valences issues and sometimes class.

The research consistently shows that in terms if attitudes the Scottish electorate is a little to the left on some issues. But there are not huge gaps.

It is you who is denying what is actually widely recognised by people who have actually researched in such areas. For example, James Mitchell, himself a prominent SNP supporter and academic.
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your assumption is that voting is a pure expression of ideological values. But it is isn't. Dominant models of electoral behaviour focus on economic conditions, valences issues and sometimes class.

The research consistently shows that in terms if attitudes the Scottish electorate is a little to the left on some issues. But there are not huge gaps.

It is you who is denying what is actually widely recognised by people who have actually researched in such areas. For example, James Mitchell, himself a prominent SNP supporter and academic.

One election fine.  But I'll take fifteen over any sample study you care to share.
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One election fine.  But I'll take fifteen over any sample study you care to share.

Not one election, models developed over decades.

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Meantime Coulson cleared of perjury.

Great news that Sheridan will not now get his rightful conviction overturned.
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"The loony 45 contingent" I take exception to that - they are people that believe in and want to campaign for something they feel strongly about.  It's a free country and people are allowed to believe, follow and campaign for their cause doesn't make them "loony". 
I think the increase in the Tory vote in England and Wales is a reflection of the fact there is very little other choice.
Also because Labour and the LibDems have lost any credibility they had, so better the devil they know, although I think the Greens and UKIP might have gained a quite a few 'protest' votes.  Maybe it is time NOTA was put on the ballot papers.

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What I find bizarre about this thread now is that there are all these people South of the border with such strong opinions about Scotland and its Government - sometimes you can't back things up with a chart, graph or stats - we are living here and can see the difference this government is making to life in Scotland.  Of course they want to finally achieve independence it's their aim, but they are also appealing to a large percentage of the electorate because they also want what is best for Scotland - ultimately that's what everyone would want - the best deal for the country you live in.
MM - I have two perfectly sensible, intelligent English born and bred friends who have lived in Scotland for a long time now, both of whom campaigned for the SNP in the Election. That was just in two different Edinburgh constituencies so I don't believe for a minute that they were alone in doing this.  Basically, if you want to know how good or bad a government is for any country, then come and live in it - not just for short periods but for a number of years.  Also even my eldest cousin (a retired Professor btw), who's a dyed-in-the-wool true blue Tory who has lived in Scotland all his life, freely admits that the SNP government has been good for this country.
 
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Basically, if you want to know how good or bad a government is for any country, then come and live in it
 
Similarly if you do live in Scotland for years then the idea that it is much more politically progressive than England becomes laughable. Take for instance the large civic campaigns to OPPOSE the labour-liberal Scottish government's repeal of the anti-gay Section 28
Thankfully most MSP'S resisted public opposition and repealed it anyway. But I well remember  Jim Sillars, supposedly on the strongly socialist side of the SNP, giving vocal backing to keep the anti-gay clause.
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Division for division sake is never good.  Just feeds into prejudice.  God knows there's enough of that in the world.
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