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Aileen
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Quote from: Caz on August 22, 2014, 07:18 am
I know!  Whoever it was who said 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' were bang on the button! It sickens and saddens me that there can be so many truly evil people in the world! Not only 'in' the world, but 'running' and 'governing' the world! People go on about their daily lives, not knowing or 'not wanting to know', while they and their's are being 'used' and 'exploited' like sheep!  shocking Whenever we get a 'good' leader or a decent man who refuses to join and stands against the 'network'.....well, we know what happens there don't we? Then people will say 'Awww.....what a shame!' and maybe even shed a tear, but then they will carry on regardless!  shocking I do realise though, that that may be because they don't know what else to do! Well for a start, they need to stop worrying about innocent lives of pop stars and politicians being ruined! If people 'are' innocent, then they will be 'found innocent'! This is about 'saving and protecting the innocents' after all! We should remember that 'innocent children' are the victims in this! We can't do much for the children of the past, but this is our opportunity to send out a strong message to the beasts who would abuse the children of the 'here and now' and the children of the future! Yes....there may be those who'll come along with their trumped up tales looking for compensation, but is that really a good reason to 'close the door' and leave our children and grandchildren at risk? I don't think so! The guilty 'need to be flushed out' and shown up for what and who they 'really' are and those who 'would be' abusers, need to know they will be caught and punished, because 'we will not stand for it'! We will not tolerate it any longer!!! Probably the only good thing that Jimmy Saville ever done, even if it was inadvertent, was to 'open this particular can of stinking worms'!  Time to get the blinkers off now folks! Time to wake up!
I doubt there's anything I can add to what you've said Caz, because it sums things up pretty nicely.  Also I came across this article in The Guardian of 14 July which backs it up as well -

A child abuse inquiry requires a truth-seeker. Grabbing a grandee isn't enough

So, we have all learned how not to do an inquiry into child abuse in 2014: don't grab a grandee, and especially not one who is a "safe pair of hands". We don't need "safe", we need a serene, scrupulous seeker after truth – the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/14/child-abuse-inquiry-elizabeth-butler-sloss-cleveland


Incidentally Lady Butler-Sloss herself had the name of a bishop allegedly involved in child abuse withdrawn from her 2011 report into abuse in the Church of England.


 
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Elena
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Hmm, trial by MW. Been trying to unread some of these posts. It's not working. Time for a break I think.
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Connor
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Quote from: Elena on August 22, 2014, 10:52 pm
Hmm, trial by MW. Been trying to unread some of these posts. It's not working. Time for a break I think.

Instead of prosecutors and defendants it will be positive and negative.
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Aileen
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I don't see anything that can be called a 'trial' by anyone because the evidence is screaming everyone in the face and has been for years only it's been ignored by those in responsible positions who really would rather not know about it, thank you, rather than launch investigations into these offences, which is why sexual abuse of children has been allowed to run riot with impunity for so long now that it seems to have become almost endemic in this country.  Also so far as Sir Cliff goes, if you read the posts, nobody on here has said he's guilty of the alleged offence.
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Caz
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Quote from: Aileen on August 22, 2014, 08:28 pm
I doubt there's anything I can add to what you've said Caz, because it sums things up pretty nicely.  Also I came across this article in The Guardian of 14 July which backs it up as well -

A child abuse inquiry requires a truth-seeker. Grabbing a grandee isn't enough

So, we have all learned how not to do an inquiry into child abuse in 2014: don't grab a grandee, and especially not one who is a "safe pair of hands". We don't need "safe", we need a serene, scrupulous seeker after truth – the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/14/child-abuse-inquiry-elizabeth-butler-sloss-cleveland


Incidentally Lady Butler-Sloss herself had the name of a bishop allegedly involved in child abuse withdrawn from her 2011 report into abuse in the Church of England.


 
Thanks Aileen! It makes interesting if worrying reading!  Frown
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Caz
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Quote from: Elena on August 22, 2014, 10:52 pm
Hmm, trial by MW. Been trying to unread some of these posts. It's not working. Time for a break I think.
Nobody is 'on trial' here! Did you even bother to read the Butler-Sloss report or the link that Nigel posted with the list of politicians who've already' been found guilty'? In fact....don't even bother to answer that Elena. Just go back to sleep!
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Elena
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Quote from: Caz on August 23, 2014, 10:40 am
Nobody is 'on trial' here! Did you even bother to read the Butler-Sloss report or the link that Nigel posted with the list of politicians who've already' been found guilty'? In fact....don't even bother to answer that Elena. Just go back to sleep!

Yes, I had a quick look at the list of “politicians” Nigel posted. It has one MP on it, and one general election candidate. Of the other 17 named, most are councillors. There are about 23,000 councillors at any given time in the UK. William Straw gets a mention because of a minor drug offence when he was 17 and somehow the murderer Dennis Nilsen also gets on this list. Hardly the “higher echelons of politics”

Nigel says this list is unarguable –“ it's politicians who HAVE BEEN CONVICTED. It's an unnaturally high number for any profession, leading me to conclude that the House of Commons is nothing more than a Teflon glee club for child offenders”.

You wrote “....and to think we used to be told anyone standing for parliament were thoroughly vetted and had to be squeaky clean!” and then go on about power corrupting and “so many truly evil people” running and governing the world.

Seems a bit of a leap to me –

A few minutes of research shows that the accusations against George Robertson re Thomas Hamilton in the same blog post are completely unfounded. He had already successfully sued the Sunday Herald when this piece was written.

I also looked up Operation Ore and D notices, I didn’t read the links to other conspiracy theory blogs, but did see this from the excellent Tom Watson MP:
“I have been bombarded with questions about the use of D-Notices in relation to a parliamentary question I asked about an historic child abuse case. I wrote to the secretary of the D-Notice committee. The Minister, Mark Francois, has given a comprehensive reply. I hope this puts an end to the large amount of inaccurate speculation made on social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook”

The letter can be read here: http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2013/01/comprehensive-answer-on-the-use-of-d-notices.

I also signed Tom Watson’s petition back in July that lead to the announcement of an inquiry into organised child abuse. The Butler-Sloss appointment was a mistake, and she did the right thing in resigning.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that allegations should not be followed up. But I am sorry that some posters seem so ready to believe some of this stuff, and spread it on an Andy Murray fan site. That’s all I’m saying.
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Caz
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'Sir' Cliff Richard has been interviewed by the Yorkshire Police and released without charge! Whether that'll be the end of the matter, I've no idea, but I think he was very wise to come back to clear his name! This should be good news for my sister, Nigel's mum and TJ!  Wink
[ Last edit by Caz August 24, 2014, 07:15 am ] IP Logged
Caz
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'Sir' Cyril Smith MBE was a Liberal MP for Rochdale. In 2012, following allegations of child sex abuse, the Crown Prosecution Service formally admitted Smith should have been charged with the sexual abuse of boys during his lifetime. Greater Manchester Police said the boys 'were victims of physical and sexual abuse' by Smith. In November 2012, GMP Assistant Chief Constable Steve Heywood, said there was 'overwhelming evidence' that young boys were sexually and physically abused by Smith. In April 2014, it was reported that there had been 144 complaints from victims as young as eight, but attempts to prosecute 'had always been blocked'.   [taken from Wikipedia]
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Caz
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Elena.....the fact that most of the names on that list were councillors and mayors does 'not' make it OK and because you signed Tom Watson's petition, I don't believe you think so either! Unless of course you're one of those people who thinks that by adding your name to a petition you've done your bit for society and that's enough!  If you really want, I can probably dig out a few more names from the 'higher echelons of politics', but it would be a waste of time and energy if like me, what you really want is the truth and protection for our children! I'd like to know 'how' attempts to prosecute Cyril Smith were blocked and by 'whom'!
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Littlebuddha
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Yes it's true Caz about an enquiry into Smith was blocked. How many other politicians and upper class have gotten away with it because of their rank and power it stinks.Than's why there should not be all male or female boarding schools were kids are bullied and used by staff members or older boys. It has been going on for years too many incidents being covered up by the police or MP's in parliament.
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Aileen
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Quote from: Caz on August 24, 2014, 06:14 am
'Sir' Cliff Richard has been interviewed by the Yorkshire Police and released without charge! Whether that'll be the end of the matter, I've no idea, but I think he was very wise to come back to clear his name! This should be good news for my sister, Nigel's mum and TJ!  Wink
Well that's good news for a start, but I still don't understand why, if he had nothing to hide, that he didn't come to the UK sooner.  Hopefully it will be the end of the matter, but unless he was able to convince the police beyond all doubt that the allegation was without foundation, then I would expect it to continue.  However, as only one 'victim' has come forward, and that, as I understand it, through an intermediary, whereas with Savill, Harris, etc, there were many more, it could well be the case that they're waiting to see what, if anything, happens next whilst still keeping the case open.

Quote from: Littlebuddha on August 24, 2014, 05:00 pm
Yes it's true Caz about an enquiry into Smith was blocked. How many other politicians and upper class have gotten away with it because of their rank and power it stinks.Than's why there should not be all male or female boarding schools were kids are bullied and used by staff members or older boys. It has been going on for years too many incidents being covered up by the police or MP's in parliament.
Margaret - your whole concept of what goes on in same-sex boarding schools is a little out-dated, something to which I can personally testify.  Of course there's always going to be some bullying since that, unfortunately, is in the natures of a lot of human beings, but then the same thing goes on in any school, private or otherwise.  Now even Eton, which until fairly recently was a notorious hot-bed of bullying and abuse, has cleaned its act up.  I agree though that same-sex boarding schools, in the past at least, weren't the best environments for sexually awakening adolescents to be in, but I understand that these days a more enlightened approach is being taken, mainly, as was the case with my old school before it closed down, by allowing pupils to board on a weekly basis, which meant that they could go home at weekends and so lead a 'normal' life.
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Elena
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Quote from: Caz on August 24, 2014, 08:49 am
Elena.....the fact that most of the names on that list were councillors and mayors does 'not' make it OK and because you signed Tom Watson's petition, I don't believe you think so either! Unless of course you're one of those people who thinks that by adding your name to a petition you've done your bit for society and that's enough!  If you really want, I can probably dig out a few more names from the 'higher echelons of politics', but it would be a waste of time and energy if like me, what you really want is the truth and protection for our children! I'd like to know 'how' attempts to prosecute Cyril Smith were blocked and by 'whom'!

So.... did I ever suggest that any of these offences were OK? No. 
Did I object to a conspiracy theorist's blog full of lies and smears being used to back up accusations that lots of MPs are paedophiles - Yes.

Any further comment on the D notices or Dunblane?
[ Last edit by Elena August 24, 2014, 11:25 pm ] IP Logged
Caz
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I said "....because you signed Tom Watsons petition, I 'don't believe' you think so either!"  confused D notices? I really cannot see why gagging the press on paedophilia could be claimed to be necessary as 'a matter of national security', so 'yes', I do definately have my suspicions about that, but as for Dunblane.....I have no idea! Now.....do you have any thoughts on the 'why....how....and by whom' the police were blocked from prosecuting 'Sir' Cyril Smith MBE? Do you think the same thing would have happened if the alleged perpetrator had been Joe Bloggs?
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iamabritt
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Sad news another great star gone.Richard Attenborough
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