[boogers]

I also find it really weird that people think Johnson is some sort of sensible reason for independence. Skipping over the fact that Scots are in general small-c conservative, so would probably end up electing a right wing government, he'll be gone in a few years.

The ephemeral presence of a floppy haired sex gollum as PM is an irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

[boogers]

The increase in support for Independence has been fuelled by Brexit - personally it’s inconsequential who the PM is - BJ won’t last that long but the Tories will be in power for a long time decimating NGS Services, enabling the rich to become richer and increasing the divide between the rich and poor.

Nah. After an initial wobble immediately post referendum, the polls didn't budge much. It's only since Johnson became PM that things changed.

It's weird to be complaining about "decimating NGS Services, enabling the rich to become richer and increasing the divide between the rich and poor" when you vote for the SNP as well.

60 years Scotland has voted and not got the Government it voted for - I think that fuels people’s desire for something different. 

Eh? In 2005 Scotland returned a majority of Labour MP's, who then went on to form the third Blair government.

[Littlebuddha]

Well, it can't be any worse than this Tory government. I dread to think of BJ being PM for an extended period of time.

He could not care less about Scotland he's only interest would be in our natural resources that's about all he cares about Scotland for.

[boogers]

People really should be careful what they wish for, MM.  Different isn’t always better. 

Indeed, Elly.

I find it really hard to reconcile MM's comments about redistribution and inequality, with her support for literally impoverishing an entire nation for a generation. My suspicion is that her real drive is much the same as the Brexiteers (sovereignty over all else), but admitting the costs of that decision is distinctly uncomfortable.

If inequality and redistribution are really things we care about, much better to reform what we have now than burn it all to the ground.

[Murray Magic]

Indeed, Elly.

I find it really hard to reconcile MM's comments about redistribution and inequality, with her support for literally impoverishing an entire nation for a generation. My suspicion is that her real drive is much the same as the Brexiteers (sovereignty over all else), but admitting the costs of that decision is distinctly uncomfortable.

If inequality and redistribution are really things we care about, much better to reform what we have now than burn it all to the ground.

I am definitely not a flag waving sovereignty shouting supporter - being in charge of your own affairs and own destiny is perfectly normal - how many countries go independent and then rush to come back?
Brexit has normalised racism and resulted in a lot of people becoming insular and selfish - the vaccine supply issue being one area - sure we can
vaccinate everyone in the UK but it’s the whole planet that needs vaccinating to make life normal again. 
Scotland can stand on its own but still be a part of everything.  I want to live in a fair and just society where there is not a need for folk to be begging for food and making decisions between feeding their kids and heating a house. 
Even the most ardent of Tory supporters know this is not something that the Tory government prioritise. 
There are small steps in Scotland - the Baby Box, free prescriptions, Scottish Child Payment , free school lunches for P1-3 - small steps but things that make a difference to help with issues that families have.
I can remember when my kids were really little and not having the money to get a prescription for me as I had to prioritise them - that was with both parents working and paying full bills etc so people’s perceptions that poverty only affects the unemployed is wrong. 

[boogers]

being in charge of your own affairs and own destiny is perfectly normal

That's exactly what the Brexiteers said.

how many countries go independent and then rush to come back?

There aren't any comparable examples of a unitary state like the UK splitting up today. A lot of people don't understand just how complicated the integration between the constituent parts of the UK is, and those few that do on the nationalist side don't talk about it for obvious reasons.

Brexit has normalised racism

Bullshit. The UK is and remains one of the least racist countries on the planet. That's not to say that there isn't lots work to do still, but Brexit hasn't changed that.

and resulted in a lot of people becoming insular and selfish - the vaccine supply issue being one area - sure we can
vaccinate everyone in the UK but it’s the whole planet that needs vaccinating to make life normal again.

The UK is one of the larges donors to COVAX, and forced Oxford to partner with AZ to sell the vaccine as cost price, and to do so by spinning up local manufacturing chains.

The only people being insular and selfish about it are the American (export controls), and the EU commission (export controls).
 

Scotland can stand on its own but still be a part of everything.

A diminished, increasingly inconsequential part.

And "stand on its own" is a pretty low bar.

I want to live in a fair and just society where there is not a need for folk to be begging for food and making decisions between feeding their kids and heating a house. 
Even the most ardent of Tory supporters know this is not something that the Tory government prioritise.

The Scottish government has tremendous amounts of power to enact policy that would do just that. It refuses to because it does't care. It only cares about independence.

If you voted for eg. Sarwar's Labour, you'd get a transformative government without the cost of blowing up an entire country.
 

There are small steps in Scotland - the Baby Box, free prescriptions, Scottish Child Payment , free school lunches for P1-3 - small steps but things that make a difference to help with issues that families have.

With the exception of the baby box (a policy with, uh, uncertain utility) those are all matched by similar programmes in the other UK nations.

Which really does expose one of the core points: the Scottish Government could go a lot further, but in doing so it'd harm the independence movement.

In addition, you - like almost all nationalists - refuse to acknowledge the incredible cost and damage independence would cause. You claim to care about equality and redistribution, but refuse to vote for a party that would actually enact those policies. And you also support a catastrophic act of self harm that'd have a material and lasting impact on the most vulnerable.

Seems to me that it's very much about sovereignty to you, and damn the consequences. Sounds like those dastardly Brexiteers, doesn't it?

[marathonarthur]

I have been reading all your contributions with interest.

I promised myself not to get involved but I have a simple observation. I have long been amused by the statements that Scotland is not represented as the Government is not to the people's liking. Here is a typical sentence:-

60 years Scotland has voted and not got the Government it voted for - I think that fuels people’s desire for something different. 

I humbly remind you all that you vote only for a Member of Parliament to represent you not for a Government. Most of us are minorities of a kind in out own country so few have the Government with policies of our own choice. The desire for Independence is for some as Murray Magic suggests is a typical reaction to the frustration of not being important in Westminster?

Keep posting the mails. They are interesting reading. Boogers is half right about the Blair Government where Scottish Labour MP's were significant but half wrong because it led to no better consideration of Scottish matters in Government other than a few ministers from Scotland being selected as Ministers. 

[boogers]

Firstly I would never vote for Sarwar purely because he can stand there and spout his socialist vision but he really needs to practice what he preaches and pay his employees a decent wage and allow them to be part of a Trade Union.  The profit he makes from his family company pay for his children to have a luxury private education- there’s not a lot of socialist principal there - lead by example.

Firstly, I'd rather hope that Sarwar isn't a socialist, because socialists are monsters just like fascists. He's probably more accurately described as a social democrat.

Secondly, Sarwar isn't a director of USW, and as such has absolutely no control over how the company is run.

Thirdly, the lack of union representation at USW has nothing to do with the company.

The UK is racist - if you are forming your opinion from that last report - it has been dissed by so many leading people as a PR exercise.  Brexit allowed people to come out and say what they had previously only thought.

No, I'm not basing it on that report. I'm basing it on polling and research over decades. However you care to measure it, the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world. That's not to say there isn't racism present, but the idea that independence would eliminate it in Scotland is dumb.

Sadly, there's actually some pretty compelling evidence that Scotland is actually more racist and closed than England and Wales.

The Baby Box has been lauded by other countries and endorsed by the Royal College of Midwives.

Finland invented the idea. And there's no evidence that they're actually any use.

I’m not going to argue with you about economics as quite clearly you are way more intelligent than me on such matters but I do have decency and respect - I respect your views I even agreed with you when the Brexit referendum was underway as I seem to recall you were an ardent remainer.

You do realise that this is just reinforcing what I said, right?

The course of action you are advocating for (independence) has extraordinary negative implications for the economic well-being of Scotland. Everything flows from that. The progressive "socialist" things you want to see enacted? Those cost money, and require a healthy and vibrant economy to provide.

However, I know you will never respect the views of Indy supporters on here or SNP supporters so am just gonna leave it there.

I respect those who realise the implications of their chosen course, and the honesty to say so.