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 If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics
althusser
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Quote from: Iluvandy on June 04, 2021, 12:36 pm
   I'm following the programme on BBC2 about the partition of Ireland.     Hassle doesn't even come close to describing what they had to go through for independence.

At least everything was fine afterwards  blink blink
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Iluvandy
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^   Depends what you mean by fine.     Doubt if  many would want to go back to rule by Westminster though.
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boogers
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Quote from: althusser on June 04, 2021, 02:55 pm
At least everything was fine afterwards  blink blink

Absolutely barking, isn't it.

The comparison with the partition of Ireland is pretty disgusting.
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Aileen
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Quote from: althusser on June 04, 2021, 11:16 am
Nope. It will be for people who are resident in Scotland  regardless of their nationality.
Quote from: boogers on June 04, 2021, 11:28 am
Bit of a kicker for Scots who live outside of Scotland as well.
I've always thought that the latter is unfair because people live outside of Scotland for many reasons but apparently it would have cost too much to have arranged for them to vote in 2014.
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boogers
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I suspect the real reason is that Scots living in the rest of the UK are unlikely to vote for independence. The SNP (like all political parties) only like changing the franchise if it benefits them.
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Aileen
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I seem to recall that last time here was quite a fuss made by Scots living in the rest of the UK and elsewhere because they wanted to vote for independence?
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Littlebuddha
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No, it won't rankle because, unlike England, Scotland will welcome people who have chosen to make Scotland their home.

Unlike England where people have returned to Europe because of the hostility shown by your fellow countrymen.

Please do not deny it because it is a fact whether you like it or not.
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marathonarthur
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Does anyone have any thoughts on why some good people are walking away from the SNP?  I am looking for succinct comments as the newspaper reporting generally has not focussed on giving a simple answer to that question!
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Littlebuddha
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Why is the comparison with the partition of Ireland disgusting? Look at what is happening in Northern Ireland all the trouble that is happening there, is the fault of the British Government. They have lied through their teeth about the arrangements with the EU and not kept to the agreements made with the EU.

This has caused strife between the loyalists and the catholic population Johnson just wanted to get an agreement with the EU as quickly as he could without taking account of the problems it would cause.

It is time for the people of Northern Ireland to look to the future they would be better of becoming part of a united Ireland instead of being treated as irrelevant by a UK government that does not give a dam about them. Unfortunately, Aileen Foster who gave them the support the UK required to get the agreement with the EU has paid the price for UK's duplicity. She should have known that Johnson could not be trusted. That should be a lesson to Scotland to never ever trust Johnson as he is a born liar.

Unfortunately, the people of Northern Ireland have been used as pawns by a British Government who did not appreciate the problems there would be in reaching an agreement with the EU.
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boogers
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Quote from: Littlebuddha on June 04, 2021, 08:48 pm
Why is the comparison with the partition of Ireland disgusting?

The fact that you even have to ask that question is appalling. You can start with the Plantation of Ulster and go from there.

Here's a related question for you: are you willing to destroy the lives of thousands of Scots, and impoverish an entire generation, as long as it brings you independence? And do you think that the situation of Ireland in the 1920's is in any way comparable to Scotland today?
[ Last edit by boogers June 04, 2021, 08:57 pm ] IP Logged
boogers
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Quote from: marathonarthur on June 04, 2021, 08:44 pm
Does anyone have any thoughts on why some good people are walking away from the SNP?  I am looking for succinct comments as the newspaper reporting generally has not focussed on giving a simple answer to that question!

General disagreement with the approach to independence, mostly. Sturgeon - rather sensibly - is not willing to do anything that'd bring into question the legitimacy of a referendum.

The SNP has always been a broad church politically, spanning from small-c conservatives on the left to virtual communists on the right. That translates into centre-right policies (quite similar in many respects to those being pumped out by the Cameron era Tories), which naturally irritates a large proportion of the membership that's to the left and right of that position. They get away with it as long as there's progress towards the ultimate goal.

Now that things are stuck, with UK Gov saying "nope, no referendum for you" and Sturgeon unwilling to hold a wildcat referendum, that broad church starts to become trouble...
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Littlebuddha
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You are talking utter rubbish it is entirely the fault of the British it started as you well know about Scots being sent to Ireland (Ulster) to counter the Catholic population hundreds of years ago. It is time it came to an end. This was caused entirely by the Crown.

I would have thought that it is far beyond time for the two communities to come together for the benefit of both communities. The past should be forgotten and the two communities should unite for the betterment of all.

I am not going to go into the reasons for the troubles but I would have thought in this day and age that they should come together for the betterment of both communities. Instead of being used as pawns by a British Government that does not truly care for them.

I do not agree with you at all about Scottish Independence and I never will. It is for the Scottish people to decide what they want the future to be. To be part of Europe in a trading block with our European neighbors instead of being tied to a country that does not care about Scotland and who would keep us tied to a UK government against our wishes

As to your assertion that independence would destroy the lives of thousands of Scots, what utter rubbish do you really think that I would agree with you on that you yourself did not want to leave the EU so why would you deny Scots the right to do so.?

It is for the people of Scotland to decide if they want Independence that should happen before Johnson tries to remove the powers of the Scottish Parliament. He is the one trying to remove these powers and take them back to Westminster. Apparently, you are quite happy to that so much for democracy.

Being independent will not impoverish an entire generation of Scots unlike you who only wishes Scotland to fail I think Scotland will thrive. There are other small countries within the EU that have prospered so I am not as pessimistic as you. Thank god for that you are Mr doom and gloom or you just want Scotland to fail that is never going to change.

I am looking for a brighter future in a country free to make it,s own way in the world.
[ Last edit by Littlebuddha June 04, 2021, 09:43 pm ] IP Logged
robbie
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^Just popped in to see if anything has changed,  Rolling Eyes nope   lol
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boogers
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Quote from: Littlebuddha on June 04, 2021, 09:36 pm
You are talking utter rubbish it is entirely the fault of the British it started as you well know about Scots being sent to Ireland (Ulster) to counter the Catholic population hundreds of years ago. It is time it came to an end. This was caused entirely by the Crown.

The British? That grouping that includes the Scots? And instigated by James VI, the king of fecking Scotland before union? That's exactly the point you ludicrous person!

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As to your assertion that independence would destroy the lives of thousands of Scots, what utter rubbish do you really think that I would agree with you on that you yourself did not want to leave the EU so why would you deny Scots the right to do so.?

...

Being independent will not impoverish an entire generation of Scots unlike you who only wishes Scotland to fail I think Scotland will thrive.

The costs of being independent are known and quantifiable. Independence will knock the equivalent of thousands of pounds per capita off of Scottish GDP. Why are you oblivious to this? confused
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Aileen
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Quote from: Littlebuddha on June 04, 2021, 09:36 pm
You are talking utter rubbish it is entirely the fault of the British it started as you well know about Scots being sent to Ireland (Ulster) to counter the Catholic population hundreds of years ago. It is time it came to an end. This was caused entirely by the Crown.
William III sent troops to Ulster in 1689 and 1690 (culminating in the Battle of the Boyne) in order to conquer the supporters of the deposed Catholic James II, the objective being to stop James from reclaiming the British throne and to secure the Protestant succession in Ireland.  Also William's army comprised British Protestants (50% to be precise), Dutch, Danish and French Huguenot troops, while James's comprised Irish Catholics, most of them peasants, English and Scottish Jacobites, aided by troops from France.  Therefore it's nonsense to say that Scots were sent to Ireland to conquer the Catholic population.
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