MurraysWorld  >  Chit Chat  >  Scottish politics
Poll
 If the referendum were held now, how would you vote?
YES to independence
NO to independence
Don't know

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Scottish politics

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^   I know that but independence is what is most important.      Then we'll sort out what else we want.


Independence isn't important to everyone even though it might be to you.
& I thought the SNP wanted to retain the monarchy - if that's what you mean when you say "sort out what else we want".
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But there is a prior need to be clear what being independent actually is i.e. constitutional principles - hence the SNPs support for the monarchy.


We could be like Oz and argue that later.
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Independence isn't important to everyone even though it might be to you.
& I thought the SNP wanted to retain the monarchy - if that's what you mean when you say "sort out what else we want".

I know that and it's not "might be" to me - it's "definitely is".     I don't agree with retaining the monarchy and would be glad to be shot of them at some point but at the moment the SNP look like our best chance for independence and that's my goal.
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There's a prior need to be clear about everything, and so far it hasn't been forthcoming.

Of course. It's the gordian knot of independence. If you actually told people the truth about the consequences, support for it would absolutely plummet.

For some like (presumably) iluvandy, the only thing that matters is sovereignty. The damage it would cause, the lives ruined and the people made destitute are completely inconsequential in that world view.
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We could be like Oz and argue that later.

But you'd need to endorse some kind of constitutional framework for independence first - I.e. in positive favour of the monarchy. You could change things later of course.
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I know that and it's not "might be" to me - it's "definitely is".     I don't agree with retaining the monarchy and would be glad to be shot of them at some point but at the moment the SNP look like our best chance for independence and that's my goal.


Sorry you're so inflexible.
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Sorry you're so inflexible.

No need really, moonglow.      Just ignore it, as I did over your inflexibility re Brexit. 
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But you'd need to endorse some kind of constitutional framework for independence first - I.e. in positive favour of the monarchy. You could change things later of course.

Exactly.    No ptoblem then.
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@ moonglow, You are calling people who support independence inflexible I could turn round and say to you that people on MW who are against independence are inflexible it works both ways.

For instance boogers there is no way he is ever going to change his opinions so why even try. He will not be voting in an independence referendum so it really does not matter he will not be involved in that decision.

It will be for the Scottish people to decide Scotland's future.
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It will be for the Scottish people to decide Scotland's future.

Nope. It will be for people who are resident in Scotland  regardless of their nationality. That must rankle!
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Exactly.    No ptoblem then.

Thing is though it is a load more hassle changing a constitution as against setting it up in the preferred way from the outset.

I'm opposed to monarchy in the UK, but have to concede that changing it would bring enormous upheaval.
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Nope. It will be for people who are resident in Scotland  regardless of their nationality. That must rankle!

Bit of a kicker for Scots who live outside of Scotland as well.
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For instance boogers there is no way he is ever going to change his opinions so why even try.

This is certainly true until the fundamentals change. I do think my position is more consistent and intellectually honest that your or iluvandy's positions though.

Why?

Because I acknowledge that there is a philosophically valid case for independence based on sovereignty and self determination. I also I think that the damage caused by independence isn't worth it. In both cases I am in favour of an open and honest debate, with a consensus view on what a post-Independence Scotland should look like before separation is achieved.

You both seem to be either entirely ignorant of the consequences, or willing to lie to people to get your preferred outcome. Very Brexity.

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Nope. It will be for people who are resident in Scotland  regardless of their nationality. That must rankle!


haha

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Thing is though it is a load more hassle changing a constitution as against setting it up in the preferred way from the outset.

I'm opposed to monarchy in the UK, but have to concede that changing it would bring enormous upheaval.

Agreed but I see it as the only way forward.    I'd love to wave goodbye to Westminster and the monarchy at the same time but will just have to go with extra hassle.     I'm following the programme on BBC2 about the partition of Ireland.     Hassle doesn't even come close to describing what they had to go through for independence.
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