[Ruthie]

Do you really think it would have made that much difference had he fallen in line with the kind of dreadful campaign waged by the remain camp?   Arguably, by acknowledging his criticisms of the EU, he was more likely to get a hearing from sceptical Labour voters.  He may have been a bit slow in getting going but towards the end he was all over the country putting the case.  Did we hear that much more about what Alan Johnson was saying?  The fact is the media were much more interested in the blue on blue battles.  I'm not saying he was brilliant or anything but I don't think it's fair to blame him for it.  The rot with working class Labour voters started long long before he became leader.
As for the result,  I just feel numb.  And full of dread as to what will happen after a campaign that has been so divisive in so many ways, especially  encouraging xenophobia.
And please no not Chris Grayling - he is absolutely, horribly nasty.

For anyone interested, here is an attempt to think about what it means and how we can start trying to build a better politics
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/brexit-silver-linings-playbook/

[boogers]

Do you really think it would have made that much difference had he fallen in line with the kind of dreadful campaign waged by the remain camp?   Arguably, by acknowledging his criticisms of the EU, he was more likely to get a hearing from sceptical Labour voters.  He may have been a bit slow in getting going but towards the end he was all over the country putting the case.  Did we hear that much more about what Alan Johnson was saying?  The fact is the media were much more interested in the blue on blue battles.  I'm not saying he was brilliant or anything but I don't think it's fair to blame him for it.  The rot with working class Labour voters started long long before he became leader.

He acted like a petulant child throughout the entire campaign. The rot with working class Labour voters has accelerated since Corbyn came to power. To survive, the Labour party has to find a way of compromising between the traditional small-c conservative Labour base and the Momentum Islington fringe represented by Corbyn and McDonnell. Corbyn's refusal to share a platform with the rest of the remain campaign, and refusal to acknowledge the very real fears working class Labour voters have over immigration did us all a disservice.

Corbyn operates in an echo chamber. His last campaign event was in a bloody Waitrose in Islington next to the Guardian. He should have been out canvassing in a council estate in the North East.

For the sake of your party Ruthie, do what is right: side with the rest of the PLP and pull the goddamn trigger.

[blueberryhill]

Good.

Don't laugh but I have come round to agreeing with you. Brexit has done it for me. He has been an utter, futile, ineffective numpty. The Labour Party lost the North of England as they did Scotland, through arrogance and neglect.
 Had such high hopes too, feel very sad..

[boogers]

Don't laugh but I have come round to agreeing with you. Brexit has done it for me. He has been an utter, futile, ineffective numpty. The Labour Party lost the North of England as they did Scotland, through arrogance and neglect.
 Had such high hopes too, feel very sad..

Oh, I'm not laughing. It was kind of funny when it was just electoral polls and the odd council election and the assumption that he'd pratt around and be replaced before the next election. But now his ineptitude has caused real and lasting damage.

[blueberryhill]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/a-pyrrhic-victory-boris-johnson-wakes-up-to-the-costs-of-brexit

Someone suggesting Boris isn't altogether a happy chappy.
"Now look what you made me do!" Lol

[Elly]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/a-pyrrhic-victory-boris-johnson-wakes-up-to-the-costs-of-brexit

Someone suggesting Boris isn't altogether a happy chappy.
"Now look what you made me do!" Lol

He's an utter buffoon.  Like most of the leave campaign they have no fecking clue what to do now.  Magic!   If it weren't so utterly sad, it'd be laughable.

[Elly]

I actually place some blame for the Leave win at the hands of those that liberally shouted racist and xenophobe at anyone with immigration concerns. What that no doubt caused were people who still had concerns but were afraid to air them. And what does that cause? It prevents the opportunity for a respectful counter-argument to potentially alter their view. Free speech is an incredible thing for a reason and chilling free speech through labelism gets you this.

Sorry - but I think that's utter nonsense.  Nigel Farage was the one who lit that flame with his 'poster'.  Really respectful stuff coming from someone who should know better.