MurraysWorld  >  Chit Chat  >  The future of British politics
Pages: 1 ... 226 227 228 [229] 230 231 232 ... 907 Reply

The future of British politics

Quote

Why is it wrong she ends up with a "debt" of £69k? It doesn't impact credit scores, she'll never pay it all off and it'll be wiped in 30 years. She'll just pay an effective tax rate of 9% on earnings over £21k. Which seems quite fair, really.

It's marvellously redistributive - people who end up in well paying careers will pay back the full cost of the loan. People who don't, won't.
IP Logged
Quote


Jesus christ. Reminds me of that March for Leadsom nonsense. vomit
IP Logged
Quote

Jesus christ. Reminds me of that March for Leadsom nonsense. vomit
  It's yet another sign of the ludicrous times that a minor character from the Beano with a 1930's mindset and fashion sense to match should be so hyped.
IP Logged
Quote

but really is TV Production a suitable subject for a University degree.  And "University of Westminster" hello?

Don't see the particular problem with either - presumably the degree combines general media studies stuff with specialist application in broadcasting. And there is a University of Westminster - problem?
IP Logged
Quote

Why is it wrong she ends up with a "debt" of £69k? It doesn't impact credit scores, she'll never pay it all off and it'll be wiped in 30 years. She'll just pay an effective tax rate of 9% on earnings over £21k. Which seems quite fair, really.

It's marvellously redistributive - people who end up in well paying careers will pay back the full cost of the loan. People who don't, won't.

They should just call it a graduate tax and be done with it.
IP Logged
Quote

Have to agree with Boogers. I have a student loan and it's increasing every year due to interest; but quite frankly I don't need to give any fks about it, it doesn't affect my life or finances in the slightest because I am under the payment threshold. If it was the other way around and I was over the threshold then it would be a bit of a nuisance sure but I still wouldn't really care that much about it because I would be earning enough money to not care and I would also realize that the student loan was an investment in myself which directly put me in the position I was in to be able to earn that amount.

Take the student loans away and all you're doing is giving extra finances to the better off in society. I'm not really understanding why it's a Labour policy in that regard.

I honestly think the main problem with it purely is the blooming terminology of calling it a 'loan' and people saying they're 'in debt'; which is just utterly stupid that that's the case.

Yamor is actually along the very right lines there,  the government needs to try and push the concept that it's more of a Higher Education Investment Tax than a loan and that may be all it takes to sway how the public perceives it.  They should change the way it's handled by not sending out letters all the time saying how much you owe and asking where you are all the time and what work you're doing. I don't see why they couldn't just put it directly into the hands of the HMRC to recover funds instead of it being chased by a separate Student Loans Company. The HMRC would have better employment records, more resources and a better infrastructure which is already in place for revenue collection, it would probably make the whole thing more efficient and cost-effective at the same time as improving the public's feelings about it.
IP Logged
Quote

al this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22818497 Polytechnics used to offer technical/engineering skills that our economy badly needs. But because we're so snobby about academia, it was decided getting a degree was a superior rout into getting a job. This is plainly rubbish. I am reminded of "The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy" wherein telephone sanitisers and other of similar occupation were sent into space. People with a degree in "TV production" should go to. It's an immensely difficult area to break into and surely the best way is to accept a humble job and work your way up. By all means get yourself a degree in Physics first as something to fall back on, if TV production fails......Here endeth the rant!
IP Logged
Quote

al this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22818497 Polytechnics used to offer technical/engineering skills that our economy badly needs. But because we're so snobby about academia, it was decided getting a degree was a superior rout into getting a job. This is plainly rubbish. I am reminded of "The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy" wherein telephone sanitisers and other of similar occupation were sent into space. People with a degree in "TV production" should go to. It's an immensely difficult area to break into and surely the best way is to accept a humble job and work your way up. By all means get yourself a degree in Physics first as something to fall back on, if TV production fails......Here endeth the rant!

Hold on though, two different things here.  Yes so there is this report about needing more vocationally oriented higher education degrees, perhaps bringing back the polytechnic etc.  That's all good food for thought at a national level.

But I don't see why it is a mistake for an individual to choose to do TV Production, if that is their choice. Media outlets like Sky often do look for degree qualified people with actual experience in broadcasting - in this sense it is a vocationally oriented degree. But suppose they don't end up working in TV - it isn't necessarily a 'waste' as there will be a range of actual and transferable skills they can use elsewhere, potentially. I say this without knowing the particular content or quality of the actual degree in question here, but don't see why it should be dismissed.
IP Logged
Quote

They should just call it a graduate tax and be done with it.

The term might make people more understanding of how it works, but an actual tax has a few (potentially) undesirable consequences. For example with the loan system money is paid directly to universities, bypassing the government (so no temptation to skim a bit for other uses).

Ultimately as a society we need to accept that either more people go to university but do so with the aid or a loan/tax, or fewer people go to university, but do so at no cost.
IP Logged
Quote

But I don't see why it is a mistake for an individual to choose to do TV Production, if that is their choice. Media outlets like Sky often do look for degree qualified people with actual experience in broadcasting - in this sense it is a vocationally oriented degree. But suppose they don't end up working in TV - it isn't necessarily a 'waste' as there will be a range of actual and transferable skills they can use elsewhere, potentially. I say this without knowing the particular content or quality of the actual degree in question here, but don't see why it should be dismissed.

I'm also not comfortable with the idea of telling someone that their aspirations are frivolous, or making a judgement call on how valuable someones contribution to society will be.

By all means subsidise degrees where there is a demonstrable shortage of candidates, but that's about as far as it should go.
IP Logged
Quote

The term might make people more understanding of how it works, but an actual tax has a few (potentially) undesirable consequences. For example with the loan system money is paid directly to universities, bypassing the government (so no temptation to skim a bit for other uses).

Ultimately as a society we need to accept that either more people go to university but do so with the aid or a loan/tax, or fewer people go to university, but do so at no cost.

I agree it definitely should not become a regular tax, for the reason you give, but they should just call it that, so people understand what it really is.

I saw Martin Lewis suggests calling it a 'graduate contribution' (which he says is what it's called in Australia).


On the other hand, the fact that uptake of further education amongst the disadvantaged is fairly good in England, shows that the people this all affects understand what the system is better then we realise.
IP Logged
Quote

By all means subsidise degrees where there is a demonstrable shortage of candidates,
                 I agree with that. But eg the son of a friend did a degree in Sports journalism. I feel to a certain extent he was duped into thinking this would lead to a career as a sports  journalist. Of course it didn't. He now works, after several years in a dry cleaners then a gift shop, doing IT for the local library. He's clever and that seems a heck of a waste. OK you want to pay kids to have the time of their lives, I actually don't have a problem with that, I just want a reality check before they embark on some idiot degree that will merely lead to dead end jobs or worse, long term unemployment.
IP Logged
Quote

We have a neighbour who was insisted her two children went to University as no one in family had ever been. Her family all had good jobs in spite of not going to Uni. Her children did degrees in subjects where there were not many graduates needed. Unfortunately they now work on the counter at Wicked. Most of the children who went to school with them have trained on the job practically all have good jobs. This is such a shame but does seem to be widespread.
IP Logged
Quote

                 I agree with that. But eg the son of a friend did a degree in Sports journalism. I feel to a certain extent he was duped into thinking this would lead to a career as a sports  journalist. Of course it didn't. He now works, after several years in a dry cleaners then a gift shop, doing IT for the local library. He's clever and that seems a heck of a waste. OK you want to pay kids to have the time of their lives, I actually don't have a problem with that, I just want a reality check before they embark on some idiot degree that will merely lead to dead end jobs or worse, long term unemployment.

What about the people who studied Sports Journalism and did make it? Failure is part of life.
IP Logged
Quote

What about the people who studied Sports Journalism and did make it? Failure is part of life.
As somebody who studied journalism, albeit as part of a secretarial course because I did consider becoming one, i soon discovered that it's an incredibly difficult career for anyone to pursue successfully because the competition is so fierce - and if it was bad then I hate to think what it's like now.

We have a neighbour who was insisted her two children went to University as no one in family had ever been. Her family all had good jobs in spite of not going to Uni. Her children did degrees in subjects where there were not many graduates needed. Unfortunately they now work on the counter at Wicked. Most of the children who went to school with them have trained on the job practically all have good jobs. This is such a shame but does seem to be widespread.
It's nothing new either.  For about the last 30 years graduates with good degrees have often been forced to lower their sights considerably just in order to get employment.  A friend who had a PhD ended up working as a library assistant, and I do know of somebody else who also got a PhD and who now works as a driver for Lothian Buses.  My mother wanted me to go to Uni because she'd always wanted to go, but I flatly refused because I really didn't fancy doing another three years of studying and wasn't all that interested in going to Uni anyway.  In fact it was one of the best decisions I've ever made because I still managed to have a very good career.
[ Last edit by Aileen July 11, 2017, 10:36 pm ] IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 226 227 228 [229] 230 231 232 ... 907 Reply