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The future of British politics
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The future of British politics
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neverhurryamurray
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neverhurryamurray
Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 18, 2017, 01:04 am »
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Quote from: Aileen on September 15, 2017, 12:41 am
What I don't quite understand is your own stance in this matter. First of all you say that your own three children were privately educated and went on to be successful, yet now you're apparently slamming the very same system. Or is this something you perhaps regret doing?
As for wanting kids to be thick, obviously nobody wants that, but if a child isn't too bright academically then he/she is likely to remain that way regardless of which educational system you choose, and by the same token, as @strider pointed out, if I child is naturally clever and wants to succeed, then that won't make any difference either, and nor should it these days when there are other learning tools around, such as the internet, where they can get information they might not otherwise get in the classroom. Unfortunately my own generation didn't have this facility - in fact even owning a TV wasn't the norm - although books have always been readily available in public libraries, albeit a little limited in scope in small towns and rural areas.
Before I went on to being privately educated, I spent four years at a local primary school in what was largely a 'poor' area, so I've had experience of both sides of the system. and certainly enough to know that there are good teachers and not so good teachers in both, as well as very bright pupils in state schools and some real dimbos in private schools, so do you really think that making education a one-size-fits-all system would sort this out, assuming it was even possible to create such a system in the first place?
of course there will be brilliant kids and struggling kids in any type of school but the overwhelming evidence shows that privately schools get far better results overall than state which is why you never see them published together. This is why people like me pay huge amounts of money because they want their kids to get the best start in life. I would very much like all kids to get the same chance. That is my stance and it baffles me why anyone would disagree. Politicians talk about how there must be choice in education. Why? It is not a supermarket it's a school and they should all be the same high standard whoever attends and wherever they are. Faith schools don't help either.
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strider
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 18, 2017, 11:02 am »
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Quote from: althusser on September 16, 2017, 12:32 pm
One problem though is that there are no secular schools. All are meant to provide Christian acts of worship, and only specific faith schools e.g. Jewish, are allowed to be exempt.
I'd get rid of that as well, if given the choice.
But at least a non-denominational school doesn't have that sort of hiring practice, or won't exclude kids from activities if they're not saying their prayers.
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strider
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 18, 2017, 11:06 am »
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Quote from: Iluvandy on September 16, 2017, 12:42 pm
You spoke of state funded bigotry and I was trying to point out that it exists and doesn't need state funding. As for paying for what you don't want, we all do that. I pay for Trident. And as for segregation, I was educated at a Catholic school, had Catholic school friends, but my playmates at home were the other kids in the street. The segregated kids were 3 children who went to private schools and who were not allowed out to play with the riff raff!
Of course it exists - it always will. That's human nature for you.
But the minute anyone in this country suggests that the school system may be contributing to that, they're quickly shot down. It's not even discussed.
As for the Trident comment, that's not a great example. Like it or not, that benefits everyone in the country. There's arguments about whether it's needed, but as a deterrent it has a 100% success rate. We can't say the same for the way our schools work just now.
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Iluvandy
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 18, 2017, 01:35 pm »
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Quote from: strider on September 18, 2017, 11:06 am
Of course it exists - it always will. That's human nature for you.
But the minute anyone in this country suggests that the school system may be contributing to that, they're quickly shot down. It's not even discussed.
As for the Trident comment, that's not a great example. Like it or not, that benefits everyone in the country. There's arguments about whether it's needed, but as a deterrent it has a 100% success rate. We can't say the same for the way our schools work just now.
We're discussing it and I have often discussed it. There are natural divisions in society if you want to live that way and I can't see that the religious one is any worse then any other. Private schools can be divisive. My friends are a mixture of Catholic, Church of Scotland, Anglican, atheist and agnostic. state and private educated, even a Tory or two. Faith education doesn't seem to have contributed to bigotry for me. As for Trident it doesn't benefit me as there is no evidence that I would have been blown to bits if we didn't have it.
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 04:37 pm »
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^ Wow. I wouldn't even know my friends' religious or political beliefs. Not uppermost in my mind to ask or discuss,
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Iluvandy
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:26 pm »
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Quote from: Elly on September 19, 2017, 04:37 pm
^ Wow. I wouldn't even know my friends' religious or political beliefs. Not uppermost in my mind to ask or discuss,
Different people, different interests, different discussions. Forget to mention a few of them are republican.
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:29 pm »
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Quote from: Iluvandy on September 19, 2017, 09:26 pm
Different people, different interests, different discussions. Forget to mention a few of them are republican.
Yup- the devil is in the detail. Not something that means a lot to me.
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boogers
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:34 pm »
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Yep, interesting that they're categorised in that way.
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:42 pm »
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If you start to categorise, then you may as well give up. Quite frankly, I've given up on every British Politician. Stuck in the dark ages with no clue or willingness to move forward.
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Iluvandy
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:56 pm »
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Quote from: boogers on September 19, 2017, 09:34 pm
Yep, interesting that they're categorised in that way.
Quote from: Elly on September 19, 2017, 09:42 pm
If you start to categorise, then you may as well give up. Quite frankly, I've given up on every British Politician. Stuck in the dark ages with no clue or willingness to move forward.
What if the people categorise themselves, who gives up me or them. If my friend says I went to church on Sunday do I say "I don't want to know that". If he says "There is no God", should my answer be "I'm not interested in what you think". If a friend says "I wouldn't curtsey to the queen, should I say "Keep your opinions to yourself".
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:00 pm »
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Quote from: Iluvandy on September 19, 2017, 09:56 pm
What if the people categorise themselves, who gives up me or them. If my friend says I went to church on Sunday do I say "I don't want to know that". If he says "There is no God", should my answer be "I'm not interested in what you think". If a friend says "I wouldn't curtsey to the queen, should I say "Keep your opinions to yourself".
I'd say that's up to them - nothing wrong with being an individual. If your friends don't get it - find new friends who are open..or perhaps open up yourself.
[ Last edit by Elly September 19, 2017, 10:07 pm ]
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Iluvandy
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:06 pm »
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Quote from: Elly on September 19, 2017, 10:00 pm
I'd say that's up to them - nothing wrong with being an individual. If your friends don't get it - find new friends who are open..
what on earth are you on about, Elly. I thought you objected to the fact that we were all open about what we believed and thought and cared about.
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:12 pm »
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Quote from: Iluvandy on September 19, 2017, 10:06 pm
what on earth are you on about, Elly. I thought you objected to the fact that we were all open about what we believed and thought and cared about.
What do you care about? What exactly is your problem?
[ Last edit by Elly September 19, 2017, 10:17 pm ]
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Iluvandy
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:18 pm »
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Quote from: Elly on September 19, 2017, 10:12 pm
What do you care about?
Lots of things and you are off on another tack. The point of this debate is what I know of my friends' opinions and what they know of mine. I see nothing strange in my position but you did.
There is no need to fight for the moral high ground. I'm not interested.
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Elly
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Re: The future of British politics
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:24 pm »
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Quote from: Iluvandy on September 19, 2017, 10:18 pm
Lots of things and you are off on another tack. The point of this debate is what I know of my friends' opinions and what they know of mine. I see nothing strange in my position but you did.
There is no need to fight for the moral high ground. I'm not interested.
Don't make me laugh. Even when people ignore you, you always come back as a bitter and twisted person, prepared to spoil for a scrap. Do not insult my intelligence. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to wash my hair, or something….
.
[ Last edit by Elly September 19, 2017, 10:34 pm ]
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