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Murray wilts at Wawrinka's feet
Buhweet
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Quote from: Daisy on September 06, 2010, 01:04 pm
lol

Well Wawrinka flinched in the first and I thought we were going to see all of that all over again.  Then Murray roared back for the first three games in the second.  Then there was a loud pop (ahem) and Wawrinka got the bit between his teeth etc.
That "pop" was the riding crop hiting Andy's arse!!! As Stan rode him to the finish!!!
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Daisy
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Quote from: Buhweet on September 06, 2010, 01:07 pm
That "pop" was the riding crop hiting Andy's arse!!! As Stan rode him to the finish!!!

You are just bad, badder, baddest ..... lol
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Buhweet
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Quote from: Daisy on September 06, 2010, 01:07 pm
I think the media (and other) pressure is doing his head in.  He's beating himself at the moment and it was obvious, to me at least (by game 3), that this was going to be a problem for this match.  At that point I had no hope of him winning.
For me it was the end of set two. He knew he was beaten! I knew I'd have to watch it all, no matter how long it took!!! He's not in the minor's here, it's the big time. You can't play two sets and collect your check with the GS level.
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Daisy
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Quote from: Buhweet on September 06, 2010, 01:10 pm
For me it was the end of set two. He knew he was beaten! I knew I'd have to watch it all, no matter how long it took!!! He's not in the minor's here, it's the big time. You can't play two sets and collect your check with the GS level.

Oh yes, by the end of set two he had "handed in his dinner plate".  But, really, by the third game in set one he was berating himself - always a bad sign.

Well - we'll see what happens next.  Drama all the way.
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Buhweet
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A good coach would have used his first two matches as tune ups for the big boys. Andy looked bored, ready to go home before he was done in his first two matches...
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Daisy
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Quote from: Buhweet on September 06, 2010, 01:13 pm
A good coach would have used his first two matches as tune ups for the big boys. Andy looked bored, ready to go home before he was done in his first two matches...

The first two "sacrifical lambs" were a stroll in the park compared to the Wawrinka match.  It seems W's new coach has got inside his head ... just great to see.
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Buhweet
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Quote from: Daisy on September 06, 2010, 01:12 pm
Oh yes, by the end of set two he had "handed in his dinner plate".  But, really, by the third game in set one he was berating himself - always a bad sign.

Well - we'll see what happens next.  Drama all the way.
That's true...but I thought it was a way for him to psych himself up. Later I saw it as a self abuse angle......
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Buhweet
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Quote from: Daisy on September 06, 2010, 01:15 pm
The first two "sacrifical lambs" were a stroll in the park compared to the Wawrinka match.  It seems W's new coach has got inside his head ... just great to see.
I think Stan could have beaten anyone yesterday, he was even limping for Christ's Sake!!!
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Daisy
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Quote from: Buhweet on September 06, 2010, 01:15 pm
That's true...but I thought it was a way for him to psych himself up. Later I saw it as a self abuse angle......

Oh, I think he is in anguish when he goes down that road - I think his psyche is screaming.  Don't think he uses it to psych himself up.  All the battering of the racquet strings with his hand, resulted in some blood which of course got on the towel and then the ball kid wouldn't touch the towel etc.
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Daisy
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Quote from: Buhweet on September 06, 2010, 01:18 pm
I think Stan could have beaten anyone yesterday, he was even limping for Christ's Sake!!!

I did not know that he had surgery to his right tendon which had separated (I think) from his quad.  My anatomy is hopeless - but the talk was that perhaps there was some residual pain from that.
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janscribe
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Quote from: Aileen on September 06, 2010, 02:25 am
Interviewing a player 20 minutes after he's just lost a GS match he was expected to win is downright stupid.  Andy's responses are all over the place so it's difficult to come to any definite conclusion as to what might have been going on during that match.  Certainly I've never seen Andy in such angry state for a while now.  He let his frustrations totally get on top of him, and this is something he has to learn to control because he's fighting himself and not his opponent, so it's hardly surprising that his game suffers and he loses.

But can we please get things into perspective here?  Between the AO and Wimbledon Andy was in a mental slump.  He had a long break after Wimbledon, then played disastrously in a tournament in LA shortly after splitting with his coach.  Come Toronto his game improved dramatically and he won his first title of 2010. The improvement saw good early performances in Cincinnati despite having to contend with very hot conditions which, unfortuntely, finally caught up with him. Without a coach Andy seemed to flourish, claiming that he was now "feeling free" on court.

So far OK, and the hype, mainly in the media, was that he was now a strong contender to win the USO - something I didn't go along with.  One swallow doesn't make a summer and Slams, as we know, are an entirely different beast from ATP tournaments.  Also I don't think Andy's cause at the USO was helped by his draw.  I'd have preferred to see him have a tougher opponent in R2 than the unorthodox and erratic Dustin Brown.

Andy's now got about 4 weeks in which to take stock and consider his position coach-wise.  It's now been reported that Cahill is very willing to help him on an occasional or part-time basis, but it isn't known what other coaches may also have offered their assistance.  What is very clear is that he needs somebody who can hopefully give him the final impetus, mental and physical, needed to win a Slam.  To quote Andre Agassi in a recent article in The Telegraph: “He brings so much to the table, but he still has to get over the line and do this.”

I believe, however, that writing Andy's chances off right now is negative and unduly pessimistic.  According to Cahill, and Maclagan, he still has a bit to go before he reaches his peak.  Frustrating though it is, we may have to be patient for a little longer.
Well said Aileen, your comments fit the situation perfectly. I've been watching a bit of the re-run and this match was Andy's to win - how he lost it I do not know. His mental frustrations sent his tennis into complete disarray and gave Stan the upper hand. It was horrible to watch. Andy plays with minor aches and pains, such as his knee  -plays and wins - it was all those mental frustrations which he was unable to control which lost him the match and until he masters them efficiently, even his magnificent talent will not see him through.
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psychological tennis
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Its an understatement to say we are all dissappointed with the way this match went. I for one am dissappointed for Andy. I feel he knows he let himself down and that this was a match he should have won! Its interesting in his post match interview he states and i quote  " I have no idea of whether I'll win a Grand Slam or not. You know, I want to. But, you know, I mean, if I never win one, then what? If I give a hundred percent, try my best, physically work as hard as I can, practice as much as I can, then that's all I can do, you know." This is quite a telling remark, did he mean to say it? was it a mental slip up? who knows, but what it does infer to me is that his belief in himself is possibly not what it should be, for a person with such talent. And we all know that in this modern era of the game its an unwavering belief in yourself that gets you to the top. This up and down form will probably continue while he has this apparent mindset. You only have to look at Ana Ivanovic, since winning the French Open in 2008, she appears to be suffering the same way that Andy appears to be suffering mentally. Although she has won a grandslam while Andy has not. Two players with huge talent and potential who at the highest level struggle mentally! I sincerely hope that Andy finds a way to deal with his mental demons. That said he has not had a terrible season, its just not delivered what at the start promised so much. He needs now to go away relax take a break, recover phyisically if there are indeed some issues re his fitness, appoint his coach (finally) and move forward - like Ana appears to be doing, small increments. He'll definately drop to number 5 in the world next monday. Right now this is probably the best thing - might take some of the self imposed expectations of his own shoulders, freeing his mind a little, which would impact positively on his tennis game. Technically the mens top thirty are all very very close, its more about what goes on between the ears that really seperates them these days! Good luck Andy, i'm still gonna be in your corner whatever happens all the best for the 2011 season
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Aileen
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Quote from: OldScotSupport on September 06, 2010, 12:38 pm
It appeared to me that after Andy failed to serve out for the second set at 5-3, he seemed to mentally stop trying.

I was so depressed for Andy that I could not sleep and kept turning the match over in my mind's eye.

I shall not stop believing in Andy. However, my worry, when it comes to Slams is he suffers from some niggle that causes him to lose to opponents he should under normal circumstances be eating. Such as Verdasco, Cilic and Wawrinka.
I just felt numb watching him fall away from that match, but perhaps, like me, you might get some comfort from this statement from Darren Cahill, taken from the article I posted.  Also I hope, albeit forlornly, that it might give the doom and gloom merchants and the "Andy won't listen" brigade something to think about.:

“I’m a big believer in Andy winning multiple major titles,” said Cahill. “There’s no rush or time line attached to it as I see him as a guy who is constantly looking to figure stuff out himself. Some people might call it stubbornness. But I see it more as Andy wanting to become a better student of the game. He needs to feel it before he really believes it.

I am praying that Andy takes Cahill's offer of coaching him on board.
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Tanya
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LEAVE HIM ALONE! Everyone is pressuring him to win, win, win...I'd change nationality, so help me God Razz
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Neil
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Quote from: Clydey on September 06, 2010, 05:28 am
You seemed surprised when you objected to me saying that the match was slipping away. Shrug

You then admitted you were venting though.... I went to bed after the 2nd set tiebreak anyway. I would have agreed if you had said it then, rather than just when they were back on serve earlier in the set.
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